angiEmedia

I’m an active reader of Angiemedia but I couldn’t disagree more with this article. We don’t want or need more government oversight. It’s incompetent, crude, and mostly dishonest. Pushing for more intervention by police only exacerbates the problem.

What the writer of this article misses is that government intervention, and the possibility that one or the other parent can increase the pain on the other parent, is the problem–not the solution. Parents feuding who feel that they can cause pain or trauma to the other parent opens the tug of war. “There can be no peace when the only option is war.”

The solution is not more tug of war. The solution is clear and easy rules of custody. Family Courts should be handcuffed to offer only very, very limited dispute resolution mechanisms. This removes the potential to hurt another parent by taking away the discretion of a judge to rule strongly in favor of one or the other. 50/50 custody, period. That’s it. No more ability to fight about it? Good. Move on with something more productive. End of dispute.

Peace to all of you in custody disputes–be gentle–your child’s future is at stake, and never forget the story of King Solomon re: “splitting the baby”.

From Wikipedia:

The saying is based upon the Biblical passage in 1 Kings 3:16-28, where two new mothers approach Solomon, bringing with them one dead baby boy. Each mother presents the same story and accusation: She and the other woman live together and have both recently given birth to baby boys. One night, soon after the birth of their respective boys, the other woman woke to find that she had smothered her own baby in her sleep. In anguish and jealousy, she took her dead son and exchanged it with the other’s child. The following morning, the woman discovered the dead baby, and soon realized that it was not her own son, but the other woman’s.

After some deliberation, King Solomon calls for a sword to be brought before him. He declares that there is only one fair solution: the live son must be split in two, each woman receiving half of the child. Upon hearing this terrible verdict, the boy’s true mother cries out, “Please, My Lord, give her the live child—do not kill him!” However, the liar, in her bitter jealousy, exclaims, “It shall be neither mine nor yours—divide it!” Solomon instantly gives the live baby to the real mother, realizing that the true mother’s instincts were to protect her child, while the liar revealed that she did not truly love the child.”

It is often better to give than receive.

Peace to all.

@Cole Stuart

I agree with you that 50/50 custody should be the law and there should only be deviation from this with agreement of both parents or severe circumstances and solid evidence.

Putting clear rules on the areas mentioned above can help reduce conflict. Vague rules result in sociopaths trying to twist the meanings and intent and find loopholes and grey areas to cause trouble.

Do you disagree with all the points or just the one about doing exchanges at a police station? I can see why you’d disagree with that given the bias of police against guys, but if you’ve experienced your children’s other parent refusing to turn over the kids, turning them over late or not showing up, going in your car without your permission, making the children cry and upset by pinching them as they are handed over, and other such stunts, you really do not want to be doing exchanges without somebody monitoring them. Surveillance is also a great idea, but some judges are too ignorant to understand why other judges ordered surveillance. Apparently they can’t seem to get it through their thick skulls or into their diminutive brains that having a recorded record of an exchange makes the exchanges more likely to go smoothly because it means the really egregious problems are far less likely to happen.

I think the best place to exchange kids is through schools as the kids get some decompression time between parent A dropping them off and parent B picking them up. Also, the staff probably know something about parents disagreeing in divorces and want to stay out of it. But that’s not an option on weekends, evenings, or for babies. Police stations are better than residences when you’re dealing with a nasty sociopath.

Even better is somebody who is trustworthy and both parents like, but the odds are such a situation will not last as the sociopath will mess it up by a distortion campaign and other tactics. You could quickly find the “neutral” exchanger suddenly is making the exchanges more difficult because of being manipulated by the sociopath.

Professional exchanges center are an option, too, but the costs add up. I think the chances of exchanges being peaceful goes up if both parents are required to split the exchange costs equally and the first choice option is the lowest cost one such as a school with the other ones like professional exchange centers only being used if conflict levels go up or the other less expensive but still safe methods are not available.

Respectfully Rob- You have never lived thru the trauma. My ex had supervised visits and at the request of the referee I naively agreed to my ex’s friends being supervisors so kids didn’t have to go to local abuse center for supervised visits. The ex immediately started in on campaign of portraying himself a victim of cruel malicious vindictive wife. He twisted their minds. He had his friends pretend to be CPS workers during supervised visits, he had his friends spying from other parts of the home to see how kids responded when I picked them up, told his friends I called them obscene names and they called the police on me during a pickup at ex’s house. My kids told officer I never swore but just asked the supervisor to go back into the house and let me parent my children- but who did authorities believe it was two adults against one. I could tell you other horror stories. Finally the parenting coordinator ordered exchanges at police station- specific order that ex husband and supervisor was to stay outside and I was to wait inside. On next visit the ex was waiting inside with his friend. I quietly reminded ex and supervisor that they were to reimain outside and the supervisor told me that I was a legalistic “pharisee”. Finally after two years of court battles, court ordered therapists, my requsting and then following thru with communicating with ex is via email- the truth is being understood. So- waiting at a police station for ex to drop off kids is truly in the best interest of the child when dealing with these types of situations. The police at our station have maintained a respectful neutral and it has cut down on the drama associated with each and every exchange. I wish I had pushed for this earlier in the case even though my ex had “supervisors” with him. Unless you have lived it you can’t believe it- it is hard to believe even when you are going thru it.

Sylvia Gunther has a wonderful book for those of Christian Faith on how to deal with “Saul Personalities” (ie Saul of OT who persecuted David). It contains the best biblical description of a sociopath that I have found. It addresses how sin and wounding creates a sociopath. It also gives concrete means of getting your life back and healing: not throwing back barbs, not engaging with the abuser, healty boundaries of which the above guidelines would work for many cases, and maintainnig a non-bitter heart by praying for good for your abuser is the best way to handle. My frequent prayer now days is that God gives me the extreme wisdom in parenting our children and the peace to follow His directions. Which is how I ended up hear- looking for concrete ways to parent our two children so they can grow up as healthy as possible.

@Jan

Jan, I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had such bad experiences. This happens to both mothers and fathers as there are plentiful sociopathic parents of both genders and target parents often have no real idea why nor resources to help them until after they and their children have been badly harmed, often for many years.

I have lived through the trauma.

I’ve been falsely accused of domestic violence, child sexual abuse, and more.

I’ve been through exchanges with my ex who refused to turn over the children and tried to traumatize them about being away from her.

I’ve been through exchanges in which my ex’s friends went to significant effort both to harass me and stress out the children. Then they went to court and lied about it to a biased and incompetent judge, falsely claiming that I was the reason the exchanges were difficult and thereby causing even more damage.

In my opinion, anybody dealing with a sociopath who is their children’s other parent needs a parental coordinator who is trained in psychology and understands that regardless of gender, there are many sociopathic malicious liars who will go so far as to abuse their children if they think they can frame the other parent for child abuse or even just agitate them.

Merely having training in psychology ensures nothing. There are plenty of counselors and psychologists who assist in child abuse willingly and eagerly because they are too gullible or biased to be able to see their clients are malicious manipulators. They lack complete information, yet are eager to side with the sociopath to harm the children and target parent.

A poorly trained or biased parental coordinator could make things worse, just as counselors, therapists, and psychologists who lack the training and experience with personality disorders and custody conflicts often do.

Psychological evaluations are not particularly helpful, either. You can spend tens of thousands of dollars only to get a report that is then completely disregarded by a biased or incompetent judge and then be faced with even a worse situation than at the start.

The skills of competent and fair psychological evaluators would be far better applied as parental coordinators. They could do a lot more good for the families involved and they would end up having a much better understanding of the destructive dynamics created by each particular sociopathic parent and how to protect the children and the target parent while still enabling the kids to have relationships with both of their parents.

Neutral exchange sites are needed, too. But depending upon people who are present to understand what they are seeing is not adequate. There should be full surveillance of these sites with multiple camera angle video and audio recordings retained for multiple years and accessible by subpoena and to the parental coordinator. It is best if the sociopathic parent and target parent are kept far apart and the children can engage in some distracting activity on the way from one parent to the other.

You can’t simply trust the police. Even a good cop will not be able to pay full attention all the time. A short distraction such as a call on the police radio could enable a sociopathic parent to set up an incident to frame the target parent. Worse, many police officers are readily manipulated by a sociopathic parent. You could find yourself handcuffed, arrested, roughed up, or even with a gun pointed in your face by a cop who isn’t skilled enough to understand how he or she is being manipulated by a sociopathic parent and is convinced that you, the target parent, are the bad person.

One of the best exchange sites is the children’s school lobby that is surveilled by multiple video cameras. Kids can be “decontaminated” by a day in school before seeing their other parent, giving them plenty of time to forget to some degree the bashing and denigration that many of these kids hear from their sociopathic parent. One parent drops off before school, the other parent picks up after school. There are hours between, so there should virtually never be a legitimate need for the two parents to be present in that school lobby at the same time.

Ideally, school staff should be trained on parental alienation, child abuse, and common problems in custody battles. There should be a counselor or psychologist who is well-versed and unprejudiced in these areas to help them stay neutral and to do what is best for the children. Sadly, this does not seem to be a common situation.

As for religion, it is often a tool of the sociopath. As many writings on parental alienation discuss, religious groups often take the side of a sociopathic parent. Religion can become a tool used to denigrate the target parent to the children. In their zeal to “do good”, church staff and members often become enablers and participants in child abuse, yet they think they are “helping” in some way. “I’m so sorry your father abused you” or “not everybody is a sinner like your mother” might seem to them to be helpful comments, but often they are simply assisting in emotional child abuse by repeating the lies they have been told by the sociopathic parent. They become directly responsible for emotional child abuse themselves.

It’s great that you’ve found some religiously oriented text that is helping you deal with your children’s sociopathic parent. Certainly there are some religious people who do understand the problem of parental alienation. Unfortunately, in my own experience, it is far more common for a self-proclaimed “person of faith” to fail to understand his or her own religion and to engage in child abuse, harassment, defamation, and other illegal activities because he or she is too gullible to recognize manipulation via misinformation by a sociopath. The sociopath often looks pretty or handsome, almost invariably plays the victim well, and can readily repeat all sorts of religious phrases that help suck in the do-gooder as an ally for evil deeds. In such situations, churches can become very harmful to children.

Please help me understand…is it beneficial for a child to have private visitation with the sociopathic parent? Are you as parents fearful for your child’s well being? What do you do when your child is a baby and can’t tell you that the other parent smacks and belittles them?

Maybe somebody here can give me some advice: This is a very, very short outline of what I got into, and does even not contain the emotional abuse I went through.

I have 2 children (2y and 10 months old) with a NPD mother, going through divorce, and she pretty much refuses to work, but is building up her business No. XYZ. I know for a fact by now, that she treated her partners as banks (paying for further education etc) while cheating on them. Of course she is of charming, ‘lucid’ appearance, but to date she successfully prevented any discussion of issues with anybody else present (she cut me off from all my friends early on).

I am a heavily involved father, however, I am also the only bread winner since she decided to stay at home. Pretty much everything she ever told me about herself (I know her now 3 years) from degrees or whatever happened in her past life is bluntly lied. She always refused to pay bills, and is indebted seriously (before our relationship). Within our relationship she brought us pretty much to the brink of bankruptcy by just taking money to build up her businesses which were apparently never successfully run (as the ones before we met).

Coparenting with this woman is hell. The screaming of her towards me in front of the children subsided a bit, but still: taking out the kids for 6h straight will make her fight me in rage as taking out the kids at 65F (too cold). The kids can get scratches at her place, but when they get one at mine or the older one fell and has a scratch on his knee I get emails saying that she is not sure if the kids are safe with me. If I want to take the kids out on a warm evening (6-7.30) to the beach (they LOVE the beach and she ‘does not do the beach’) she will be furious that I am risking a heat stroke of the younger one). Etc etc.

She is completely devoid of empathy, although she is good to the children (I believe). The financial pressure is enormous and her position to not work but being there for the children puts me even more into a bad position in regard to custody issues (she is primary caretaker, since I care enough to get rents – her and mine – paid). Way too much to explain here.

Anyway, it is clear that she pretty much wanted a child, and after being pregnant she pretty much dumped me. Only her grandma which she respected (and who is dead now) apparently convinced her to stay with me, and eventually she got pregnant again (form having sex once, what are the odds?). But it is apparent that she wanted to have a child with somebody who can provide. I am with the kids every day, every lunch, bring them to bed every day and bath them or one of them every day. 3 nights the week they are with me, every Saturday and second Sunday. In the last 2 months I had them pretty much 5 evenings/nights the week, every Saturday and Sunday since it was convenient for her (she got a side role in a performance which allows her to brag without interruption on facebook how important she is), and in fact she called me a ‘glorified babysitter – nothing more’.

My children mean everything to me, and the thought that they will grow up with this woman who is devoid of real feelings, ethics, empathy, who is lying, cheating, defying, etc, etc scares me to death. And I am paying already my ass off since she doesn’t want to have a job and thus is with the children during the day, while my life is no different from a widowed single dad with a job, beside of the stream of threats I am getting (she moves away, will freeze my assets, I won’t see my kids again, I’m walking on egg shells, and I think she just filed a restraining order – and that although I never harmed anybody in my life, and she hit ME lately…).

What can I do? What are my chances? What is ‘best’ for the children, according to common sense and/or jurisdiction??

I am so glad I find this page. I thought I was the only one living through this nightmare. The messages written by Rob and Jan could very well have been written by me. The nightmare continues. And because my ex “appears” to be so charming, kind, and caring, the professionals seem to think that the difficulty my ex and I have communicating is because of ME. They have no idea what this guy turns into (werewolf) when no one but me is looking.

I’m Donna Andersen, the author of Lovefraud and the woman in the photo with this article. I’d like to make one correction. Lovefraud does not focus exclusively on sociopathic men. Although, statistically, there are more sociopathic men than women, we are well aware that the pathological women are out there, and of the harm that they cause. In fact, one section of our blog is dedicated to female sociopaths.

The family court system desperately needs education on this personality disorder. Sociopaths do not love their children. They are not capable of loving anyone. So, if they care about their children at all, it is only as a prized possession – the same as a car or a flat-screen TV. Usually they neglect their children. In the extreme cases, they actively try to mold the children into a sociopathic mini-me.

Anyone who advocates strict 50/50 custody does not understand the damage and destruction caused by sociopathic parents, whether they are male or female.

@Lovefraud

Hello Donna Andersen,
Do you have an email address or a means to communicate with you directly, as I do not feel comfortable disclosing my situation in detail here. My husband and I are entangled in a SEVERE case of parential alienation dealing with 2 sociopaths, his ex-wife and her new husband in which the welfare of 4 children are at stake. The situation is complex and complicated and we have been enduring this for 3 long years and are at the point that we feel like “we are screaming and nobody is listening”. It is as if no one, not even professionals, want to believe that our situation is real and that 2 people, parents, can be as vile and manipulative as what we are dealing with. I feel like I have aged 20 years since this began and we find it nearly impossible to find anyone capable of grasping the reality of what is going on with us. We are desparate for someone experienced with this to hear us and help us for the childrens sake. Thank you for your time. It is greatly appreciated. Angela

I feel that I have no place in which to turn. I have read so many sites about coparenting with a sociopath, narcissist, jerk, etc, and every site gives me advice that sounds great in a perfect world but in reality, is unrealistic. I have read about “talking over situations with the ex” like that is magically going to solve problems. I have read about “getting restraining orders to protect oneself” but my particular court system let my ex walk all over me even when he had a restraining order against him. I live in a small town. How do I get justice? How do I get this father to follow the decree and take care of his children and their expenses? I do not have extra money to hire a lawyer. I expect and demand that he follows the decree but he won’t. There is no communication or discussion. There is no explaining my point of view. That is why we are divorced….NO COMMUNICATION, NO DISCUSSION. Help. I am fearful for my safety. I sleep with a bat under my bed. I lock not only the wooden door but the screen door. My ex is the classic bipolar, narcissist, sociopath.

If I were you I would move. I would also go to the nearest Social Services building and speak with Child Warefare Dept. or which ever Dept that handles safety of the children. They will refer you to a Social Worker that will open a case for the children and as there Custodial parent they should be able to give you a list of resources and organizations that may be able to give you support and protection for you and the kids.

@Beth

Rob I know your pain. I went through the same war but came out with full custody of my twin boys. War started when they were two got custody when they were five they are fifteen now. I could swap my ex for yours and you have the same woman. I was falsely accused, arrested, dragged through family court aka kangeroo court. My ex hospitalized one of my sons when he was five. She convinced the court I commited domestic violence and my son witnessed it causing him to act out. The child never showed any signs of emotional problems. He missed his dad that’s all. She alienated my children from me. Eventually with the help of a good lawyer I prevailed but it took awhile and my kids suffered. Hang in there the truth always prevails in the end.

I myself was in an 8 year relationship with a narcissistic sociopathic woman. It never dawned on me that there could have been other women out there. After her third affair I had had enough. Unfortunately our two children now 10 and 7 are paying the price along with my new family. We have been in and out of court many times over the last three years including fighting criminal charges she was succesful in filing, which were nulle processe due to her lies. The courts do not want to hear that 50/50 custody doesn’t work and that it is both parties responsibility to make it work for the children. At this point I truly believe it can’t always work. I am not perfect by any means but me and my girlfriend have done everything humanly possible to foster a healty and loving relationship. This is the last chance for me to try and prove to the court that her involvement is unhealthy for our children and visitation needs to be supervised at a minimum. I am physically, mentally and emotionally drained by events of the last three years and don’t want to feed my children to the wolves by giving up but I don’t think I can go on much longer. There is so much more to my story that most wouldn’t even believe but I will end it here. This has got to come to an end.

@ Shannon
Im trying to figure this out myself. There is nothing worse than having a true sociopath in your life through this recovery, I too have to deal with permitting visitation, when I really worry about what he puts in my child’s head while with him. If he can screw with an adult mind on that level how much easer is it to mess with a young child’s mind. They are so vulnerable. currently the laws to protect women from these cases pretty much don’t exist unless you make it your life. Sociopaths use their children as tools and to help them feel like normal people. document, document, document. best thing in this case.

@ emile

Rob, I couldn`t agree more 50/50 should be offered straight up! From experience I know my abuser would not step up to the plate (for long anyway). I believe if 50/50 negotiated through court were the given, these irresponsible people would want minimal contact and if it looks like you are not fighting they dont want to win. Me being married to this person knew he could not handle the children for long and they got in the way of his personal life. He only wanted to fight because he looked bad,(in his own distortion campaign) once he won the minimal contact he wanted,( and we only went to court after a 5 months absence on his behalf and because I got RUMOUR by phone of him and his new girlfriend being back in town from the other side of the country, taking the children and not bringing them back then going to court to make out I was a bad parent..The rumour became believable when I hung up the phone and instantly his girlfriend appeared at my front door and asked if they could take the children to see their grandmother whom was in hospital and they had no idea if she would come out( emphasema, she lasted 13 years more) Ofcourse I said put it in writing but no written request came so I took the kids to see grandma) he bailed (it took him 2.5 months to run back to the other side of the country, no loss to me and the children had peace) and he has only been part of his childrens lives when I have happened by him by chance and offered time ( I always wanted the kids to know him even if it was to learn what not to do). The bottom line here is I believe we as parents have children together, that is a life time for us and any children involved. If, when people divorce in conflict child matters go straight to court and offer 50/50 negotiated down to what the abuser really wants. Mediation does not work because the abuser really only wants to come out of this all justified and looking like some sort of super hero with POWER. Divorce , conflict, agreed, straight to court third party helps negotiate it down or what ever, set in stone.
As the mother of these children I found that their father if I did not try to prove my self to him and he believed he was getting his own way he left us alone and I picked up the pieces let the children know thier fathers strengths (being what attracted me and was attractive for them to know) so they could always see the best in them selves and let them make thier own decisions from any time they did get with him. They are young adults and have seen trauma and it has left its mark but they are strong and moral and doing really well for them selves. I am proud to have come out the otherside with such beautiful people 22yrs 17yrs 15yrs old and I thank thier father for showing me and them a hard drama filled life for 6 years living together and probaly 2 years maximum he has spent with them in the 13yrs apart so that when we actually got peace we appreciated it wholly and we can identify abusers almost immediately (awesome).. We can not protect our children from everything, they need to experience life and who they are. I know every case is different but if 50/50 really is the reliable starting point, maybe it could be stated in hospital at the birth of a child “you do realise these children are a 50/50 with the paternal parents? You are responsible for what you can do to the best of your ability and dito for the other person” Or maybe anti natal classes should incorperate some of this idealism to pre birthing parents?? I don`t know, we are all so different. Ah Utopia would be good!

I have read a lot of these comments briefly and in my case what is mentioned about 50/50 custody (especially the child support issue) is incorrect. I have has 50/50 with a BPD/NPD mother. She has done all the usual tricks and manipulations that have been mentioned. We were never married, but I “invited” her to stay with me late in her pregnancy (she presented herself as homeless even though I know she could have lived with her mother or grandparents) while she was supposedly saving for an apartment. Of course that never happened. Our daughter was born and I couldn’t imagine how this person was going to take care of our child on her own. I offered marriage and she said yes. She soon had talked me into buying an engagement ring (using my school loan money) and then she systematically started her campaign against me. Her mood swings increased with vigor, she brought things home from stores (she had no money or job) so it was most likely shop lifted, she started cutting herself when she wasn’t getting her way. She seemed to never want me to be away and called me at my job and school along with constant belittlement for not making more money and putting her and our child first. (That’s exactly what I was trying to do by marrying her.) I quickly found out with the help of what friends she hadn’t scared away and my family that there was no helping or changing her. I was never going to be good enough or do enough. Damned if I do – damned if I don’t situation. I moved out when our daughter was 3 1/2 months . She quickly put an order of protection on me. This insured her “my apartment” that I continued to pay for and all my possessions. To top it off I had to pay back child support for those 3 1/2 months since we were not married and “everything” I had done and bought was considered a gift. That is how you are right on about how the system favors the sociopath. They didn’t give a hoot about me or my needs and still don’t. I have 50/50 and pay support as if she has primary. She doesn’t work most likely never will. She is too busy running to ER for newest ache and pain and getting pregnant. By my calculations she is now pregnant for the 6th time and she’s only 24 years old. She only given birth 2 or 3 times though. I believe her first was taken away from her, although she said she miscarried. The others most likely weren’t going to “pay off” like she had hoped so she aborted them. She’s playing the family card- something the BPD knows all to well that the courts love to accommodate the “family that’s trying” and especially the “single mother.” I regret that I settled for 50/50 and let my then lawyer scare me away from doing the right thing for my daughter. Limiting as much time from a sociopath parent is “in the best interest” of any child.

@Rob

Donna, my ex has exerted his legal right to 50/50 care but just loves farming our 3yr old son out to others, especially his partner, rather than spend much time with him. I consider this a form of neglect. They share 5 children between them. Recently my boy came home saying his stepmum hit him in the face..plus there’s been bruising on his arm. Of course this is all a ‘fabrication’ he has decided (because it’s inconvenient for him to deal with) . Social services are investigating, and I’m crossing my fingers. He’s a Detective and his girlfreind is a lawyer so can you imagine how they are going to try and act like model citizens

With all due respect when a mom and her children are battered is it a great idea to force them into a parenting agreement in which she has to get permission from her batterer in order to proceed with any parenting decision? 50/50 doesn’t work. In the days when judges gave children to moms the crime rate was down, now children are bounced between households like ping-pong balls instead of being treated like human beings, it affects their psychological and spiritual health, and they grow up to be criminals. Adults would have trouble coping with jumping between two households every few days. How are children supposed to survive this even if the father ISN’T abusive?

@ Cole Stuart
Could not DISAGREE more. As a survivor of co-parenting with a borderline ex, and witnessing disputes with my current wife and her sociopath ex, I have seen enough. I did the 50/50 and it made it worse. The battle then becomes sadistic. She took the kids to doctors they didn’t need… scheduled elective surgeries, put them on sedatives they didn’t need… took pictures of bruises that SHE put on them… called DCS accusing me of being a molester… claimed I burglarized her home… I’m just getting warmed up. She put 2 kids in the hospital, wrecked them emotionally, and between the lost income, destroyed property, and legal bills… cost me well over $100k. That’s just one of them. The other is a violent stalker who has keyed my wife’s car in the COURTHOUSE parking lot, come at me with his car at the same location, and has started fights at school and is now bullying my 12 year old daughter. He has taken the child twice and left the state. They do things that are too ridiculous to believe really happen… and they get away with it. By the time it catches up to them, it’s too late for the kids. Mine were lucky, after a year and a half ordeal in Juvenile court, my kids are with me solely. She can see them with the babysitter with the clipboard taking notes. The kids feel safe, for a change, and have made a complete 180. They are active, and make the honor roll, and get awards out the yazoo. It is IMPOSSIBLE to co-parent with these people, it is IMPOSSIBLE to parallel parent with them. The ONLY solution is to cut them off or at most allow them professional supervision. Even at that… that orange juice might really be Red Bull… or they might drop lice in the kids hair… or that chocolate cake might be full of laxatives… I wouldn’t ever think of this stuff… but a Borderline will.

50/50 can work with reasonable people. I think that psych evals should be almost compulsory at the beginning of any co-parenting arrangement with a 1 yr follow up. That may sound like an expensive mandate, but 300-500 up front is a hell of a lot lower than any legal retainer, and the results from those can nip a lot in the bud. These disorders get passed down to the kids through exposure… eliminate the exposure, and the illness will be much less prevalent in the next generation. It’s unfortunate that there is no other solution. If my ex were to ever get any real custody back, I think I would have to leave the country to get away from it. I will not go through that again.

I’ll add a bit more…. I live in a very backwards place…. Tennessee. Nuff said. I won the unthinkable case with my three daughters. I faced every accusation in the book. Woman judge. Woman guardian ad litem. Woman CASA. Therapists (plural), case managers(plural), and teachers…. all of the breasted variety. Throw in the allegations of sexual abuse with an ex mother in law who is the director of the child abuse canter… can we stack the deck any more? I beat the nutbar. There is only one way to do that. Find a shrink that is used to testifying. Ask them if they are afraid of sociopaths… at this point they will either kick you out, or show you their Taser. You should have a long history of voicemails, text messages, or emails that show their true colors. Stick to what you can PROVE… then add what you can’t. DO NOT EXAGGERATE. They will catch it and call you the nut. Any mental health professional will know that you cannot fix these people, and any effort will just make it worse. Get the kids to them… let them find out from the kids how they are being affected. If the kids are showing signs of harm, in any way, and the other parent has or is suspected of this diagnosis, a judge is much more likely to do something. An order for them to be evaluated is a start. They either will not do it, or they will flunk it. It is CRITICAL that you also meet with the person evaluating or they will be fooled. Then you get visitation cut to supervised only in a place that actually pays attention, and any phone contact is to be supervised with you retaining the right to monitor, record, and terminate a call as needed. I actually got away with stating on the stand…” while she’s showing you her best side… she’s showing me her back side.” I had the ammo to back that up. While she sobbed that I wouldn’t let her talk to the kids and would hang up for no reason… I had volumes of evidence to the contrary… she was asking them to tell the judge they wanted to go live with her, she was offering love and affection for compliance… on and on. Guilt trips…. garbage. Today the girls can have a nice, peaceful visit for a couple of hours a week… with someone watching. That’s as good as it gets. I’m still afraid of police cars. I’m still afraid of opening the mailbox. I still fear what she might do next. You can’t ever make that go away entirely. All the threats she made about taking the kids from me and what she would do… she followed through on all but one. I will live in fear of that one that has yet to be acted upon until one of us is in the ground.

@Jan I just realized my soon to be X husband is a Narcissitic Sociopath, He fits both in the sense he does need validation from others to feel alive and constaly talks about HIMSELF. I mean he wont see his kid for a month & when he does all he talkes about is HIMSELF and how great he is doing. Our son is 3, This man Decived me BAD, said he was a Christian man and had changed his life (he goes thru these Reilougous spells quite frequently) VERY soon into our marriage we had issues. Cheating with 15yr olds, possibly pregnancies, he cudnt hold a job, BAD anger problem, no remorse for anyones feelings at all, always had an excuse for why he did things, cant utter the words “I was wrong or I need to change” he is 36 and homless living off the means of the church..I have Full Custody and he gets SUPERVISED vists every 2 weeks for 24 hrs. No matter what,,,, There can be no peace when the only option is war.” I have ALWAYS been the targert of his narcissim and he has told his family im Bi-polar, told the church I cheated on him, bashed out the windows of an X BF of mines IN THE CHURCH parking lot, has threatned every employer he ever worked for, casually says “I am goin to burn her car up” Split somones head open over $3…NOW i have to co-parent with this Naricssitic Socipath! He has ben good to my son though, again he is only 3 though and he isnt aruond him too much. Our final courtdate is in OCT and id like to get him mentally evaulated…If I can keep him out of our lives we can have peace..My eyes are finally opened to why he is the way he is…He viewed Rape type porn (found it on my PC) and has a serios issue with Porn, anger, cant hold a job, and he doesnt want me , cus i FOUND HIM OUT… I know the REAL him and am NOT an assest to him. He has stated how he is “every girls knight in shining armour” lol. Very polite to others and respectful, I fear people wont belive me, and Ill tick the N off..He has theatned my life, said His child want his no more, left the state and didnt speak to our son for over 6months, All I wanted was peace and cud never understand why he did the things he did or said the things he said,,I didnt belive he cud really mean it?? Normal people dont think to bash out windows, or kill people over telling them they need to pick up the pace at work! As I reflect he has hurt my son in the sense of his inconsitant lifestyle and leaving for extended periods of time, I have NO DOUBT that if he was to find a “resource” in another country he wud be on the next flight and not think twice about how it wud affect his son, who actaully loves his father very much..I alwatys thought keepin him invovled with my son was the best thing for my son and I never wanted to be the one that caused him to NOT have a father ( Ialready have one son who’s father isnt arond due to drugs and alchol) When I hear him talk about God it makes me ill, And im a beliver, its like he says all these things to make himself look Goood and he wants me to say “Boy u sure are doing Good” He doesnt provide for his son at all, nor does he call jsut to ask how he is doing. THis man will talk NON STOP about HIMSELF for hours if u let him and considers it disrespectful if u have to fold laundry while he is speakin ! What alarmed me the most the other day during one of his rambles he said “since i have been young ive thougt of 2 tings, MURDER AND RAPE and now Im delivered, God set me free” The hairs on the back of my neck stood up! Why wud he say this?? I hope its tru but he has been doing this religous stuff for along time and is how he got me to marry him and now finally admits he married me to have sex with me….(im against pre-martial sex) his victims/women are always ones in crisis, when he met me I had a broken back and foot and he came to my aid and was aroudn NON STOP treated me like GOLD. It wasnt until we married shorly after his how demanor changed…what can I do to be an effective co-parent?? CAn I RUN? I need to make a decison b4 October and tell my lawyer about this stuff and get any visitaiton taken away, cus im afraid of what the furutre may hold for my son and my children. I belive if i was to move on with another man, he wud take it really hard and I dont know how is Narcissim will affect our son when he is older….I dont know what to expect as my son grows and matures what kinda inflence he will be on him…HE told my son who was 2.5 to take a bat to a kid who bite him at daycare (said he was joking) but kids take that Literally he even handed him the bat…Any suggestions, on what I can petition the courts for and if I shoud bring this up to my lawyer, I dont wana piss the N off too much, but I have to protect my son and myself……

I think each situation varies. I am dealing with a sociopath male. He is the biological father of my four year old son. The drama has been over the top ever since I left him. He is very manipulative, dishonest, and very bitter. He has been trying to bring me down. He is ordered to pay child support which he doe not pay regulary. He has sturdy relationships with different women who dont mind him being unemployed. He has manipulated teachers, cps workers, etc. I am thinking about suing him for malicious prosecution because he calls cps workers on me about every year. He makes false accusations that result in each case being closed. He is evil. We were recently ordered by the judge to meet at local police departments which is a good idea. I put off going to school and getting education because of the drama. But now I am back in school and pursuing a degree and planning on moving soon. Dont live in the same city with them. The visitations will have to be more frequent. They usually dont work so they will have financial difficulties.

Sociopath aka “The Devil” is always looking for ways to manipulate, lie, and get his way. I have been going through this hell for 4 and a half years. First he wanted a paternity test to prove my son was really his. I believe that was done to humiliate me and make me look like a loose women. Then when I filed child support he got really upset and tried to push for more time with my son. I get my son majority of the time but he gets substantial visits. We have been in and out of court in Raleigh, North Carolina. I have took on jobs to support my son because like I said he wont pay any child support. I dont depend on child support bc I work and keep jobs. Hes on child support bc I considered it a punishment for the hell he took me through. It eventually comes to a point about every year where if he doesnt pay something, they will arrest him. He doesnt work at all. I know he lives to manipulate different women who work, have a place, and transportation. I even worked as a Detention Officer bc I wanted the courts to favor me. It worked, they looked at me as being more stable and gave me some of what I wanted. I guess I dont want to have any contact with him at all. He is very dangerous, especially when he gets upset. Not to long ago he attacked my fiance. We went to court. He got a slap on the hand. They held him in civil comtempt. But he lied and said my fiance started with him. He coned a fake witness to come to court. He is crazy. But Im gonna move away from this area. Staying in the same city with this animal makes things more uncomfortable. I would probally puke if I run into him at the movies, grocery store, restaurant, etc. As for my son, I take him to counseling regulary just in case he tries to make any more false accusations. One day I may have to use his therapist in court.

Does anyone have any other advice dealing with sociopath males. It seems that everyone on this site is dealing with sociopaths. Maybe we can share ideas and information on how we can live more peaceful lives.

Dealing with a narcissist co-parent is the most challenging event the other parent and children can go thru while the other parent is on a war path. I fully support 50/50 parenting, however not when the parents have to go thru the courts system. For two good parents, they don’t need a GAL or judge! Yes, the courts need to be better educated on mental disorders and how to determine and treat it. My question is this: How do you “learn” to communicate with the other parent to benefit everyone???? I have tried kindness, praise words (which he took as a sign to ask more and more), I tried little verbal communication (to which he got upset I was hiding something from him), I have stop all “emotional “words in any form of communication which was helping a little bit (meaning not responding to the drama) so now he has turn towards our daughters (4 and 6) in a form of parent alienation for his NPD supply. Nothing is working….. I am drained!

Brief back ground: The courts think because of my lack of emotional outburst and straight forwardness, I am cold hearted adulteress like he told them without any shred of proof, so I am stuck with a 65% – 35% co-parenting with mutual agreement on all decision making even though he hadn’t see his daughters for 1 ½ years. Yes, he was deployed for 9 months, however when we got married he wasn’t in USMC (retired), and came home one day saying he signed back up and was leaving in 6 months because he “had to get away from family life” , during that time he lost his command overseas due to drinking and fighting and trying to get his gay Lt Col removed . After all that he was reassigned to FL on a good post and never once came back to visit his daughters until he got released for drinking and fighting again. He refused to show his fit-rep to courts or his discharged papers and they felt the need to give him a second chance without asking for anything. Our daughters are torn, on “Daddy’s happy days, they love going, on Daddy’s bad mood days, they refuse to go and he blames me of course……..Since that…..

I have tried to work within the agreement only for him to always trying to changing the schedule, disagree with me on every need for the girls including a trip to ER room, hurt me verbally and thru others by stalking me………

What I need help on how to “deal” (communication) with him without him going into all the drama, debate and temper tantrums. Suggestions other than going back thru the broken court system?

Wow Cole! Obviously you have never been involved with a sociopath. Thank God for that. For those of us who have, we need all the governmental interference we can get. A sociopath will take any opportunity to skew the facts in order to make the other parent seem unfit, insane, even abusive. I have struggled for a long time to regain my reputation as an honorable human and a caring attentive mother after my X, successfully attempted to assassinate my character. It took a while, but now the small town in which I live can see how he manipulated anyone who would lend an ear. Again, THANK GOD you don’t know anything about this

Ok, I did a little more reading, and Cole and others who believe in 50/50 custody, if you had primary custody of your children from a sociopath/NPD parent, would you still believe in 50/50 custody across the board?

Rhonda — You make a good point. In many cases relationships fall apart because one or both of the people in the relationship are manipulative, dishonest, or just plain cruel. The original author estimated at 1%-4% of the population are “sociopaths” — i.e., people who don’t care about how their selfish behavior affects others. Frankly, based on my personal experience as a lawyer and the headlines I see everyday, I think this percentage estimate is desperately low.

If I may, Rhonda, suggest that you may have missed a very important point of this article, and the other extremely well researched and balanced articles at Angiemedia. In my opinion, the article points out that divorce courts throughout the nation create a forum for “sociopaths” (again–liars and cruel people) to do even more damage to their ex-spouse, children, extended family, and ultimately themselves. By pitting parent vs. parent in a contest of “who’s better” and “upping the bet” with custody and support awards, courts create incentives to lie and abuse. Sociopaths (liars and abusers) take full advantage of this easy tool to continue their theft, lieing, and abuse. I can assure you that was the case in my disso — my ex-wife was >advised by her attorneyspawnsextremely< important issues.

Blessings and love to all.

I’m sorry Rhonda — my message got cut off at near the end. I wrote to address your very good question but apparently there are character limits. Allow me to be briefer:

What I am suggesting is that parental fitness has little to do with what the parents accuse each other of. Parents can and very often do argue. Modern life. Go figure.

The problem the article addresses — very well — is that courts, psychologists, supervisors, etc. are simply band-aids on what the real problem is: parental conflict. And in fact, courts, psycholgists, etc. have proven to be not only ineffective at resolving that conflict (while it could be resolved by guiding toward free resources such as uptoparents.com), but they actually encouraging it. In other words, courts etc. actually >create< the very object that they are responsible for minimizing. As a practicing attorney for 16 years, former prosecutor for the US government, and Dad, this is nothing short of criminal behavior by our own government. Certainly rhonda there are cases where equally sharred custody is a problem. But the real question is "why"? Is it because one or the other of the parents are at each other's throat, or because the adversarial court system encourages, and even rewards, dishonest, psychopathological behavior? After nearly two decades of practicing law in California courts, and far too many years of being drug through divorce court >by< a psychopath, I suggest that it is the court system itself -- including its army of "psychologists" etc., that is the problem. Solution: 50/50 no matter (almost) what. Is it the best solution? No. Ideally, we'd have far, far better public servants who actually did their job. We don't. We have in fact extremely weak public servants, psychologists, and truly wicked divorce lawyers. Very, very sad state of affairs that victimizes children and parents alike to the enrichment of divorce attorneys, psychologists, and many, many others. It's a disgrace, and contributing to the downfall of our communities, city, state, and great nation. See "Face Up To Fred" and other articles here for more. God bless us all.

@mominohio:

I’m so glad good moms like you exist! Obviously Ohio has a better court/attorney system than we do here in California. You asked for resources to avoid going to court with what seems to be a controlling parent—perhaps and alcoholic. Here are a few ideas that might help.

First, try AlaNon—it is free and an excellent group resource for people living with alcoholics. They do suggest many of the remedies you say you’ve already tried, but they also teach you how to disengage from the alcoholic’s behavior. Importantly, they teach that you, as the alcoholic’s significant other, can’t be the one to try to “fix” the alcoholic. Just makes it worse.

Second, try UptoParents.org — again, a free resource that you and your ex can use with or without attorneys. It teaches both parents to be as cooperative as possible to avoid conflict. Perhaps if both you and your husband agree to complete their easy online program, his behavior may improve, and –not saying your behavior needs to change, but perhaps you could learn better co-parenting skills too.

If you’re both confident that the other parent is following uptoparents, then the suspicions of your ex (and maybe you) about alienation will be eased, making cooperation and healthy parenting possible.

Third — if all this doesn’t work, I’d suggest simply disengaging. Pretend he doesn’t exist no matter what. Sociopaths feed off of the energy of the co-parent regardless of whether it’s positive or negative. If he says he loves you, don’t reply. If he says he hates you, don’t reply. If he has a temper tantrum, don’t react. A famous jazz musician once said “don’t just do something, stand there.” Odd, I know, but like in jazz, absence is often the most effective tool.

It’s tough — trust me I know — because he’s picking at emotional scars. But if you’re strong you’re your own best defense.

The hope of course is that he’ll get the message that he can’t manipulate or terrorize you, which is the chief goal of a sociopathic ex-spouse. Provided you don’t attempt to manipulate your own kids, they’ll eventually they’ll get it too — trust me — I’m a child of divorce. I knew very early on who was playing fair and who was playing dirty.

I wish you the best mominohio.

If the childs Mother is a NARCISSITIC-SOCIOPATH the Courts and The Police and the National Guard are the only way to stop the WAR……….. Me, my husband and My Stepdaughter have to endure this WAR everyday and the courts, or police will not stop it so what do you do to make it stop???? Please help….@Cole Stuart

@Sharon:

Thank you for your comment. I am so, so sorry for for what you’ve endured. I’ve been where you’ve been. It’s horrific.

I wish I knew an easy answer. What you must have endured… My heart sinks with your pain.

It would be great if our government could help but frankly they need our help more than we need theirs. Courts are not the answer. If you ask me, and you didn’t, _Love_ is the answer. I wish we had lots more.

I’m only a man. A very capable, man, but just a man. My dear, my only intelligent thought is to stay away from the person that is causing you pain.

Good luck Sharon—It’s a very, very tough world today.

My prayers will from now include you.

Is it possible to eliminate or lower the influence the sociopath mother has on my children? Her father is also a very negative picture and he lives with them, and has physically and mentally abused my ex and her sister, so she seems to be repeating some type of circle with our kids, as well. With me being allowed to see my two kids (8 and 5 yr.) every weekend, how should I act to do the best and prevent them from being bad and manipulative persons?

Wow–Donna: we appreciate your reasearch and tremendous effort, but perhaps some readers have other opinions. I’m only one man, and a very flawed one, but I remember that when I was being an idiot my Mom did … nothing.

The first step in swimming is– learn to float. The first step in boxing is … The first step in dancing is …. the first, and last, step in love is ….

Hmmm.

“Dont just do something, stand there.”

~Peter Ustinov

My best to all

They come in all forms. My relationship started over 3 years ago with a 35 yo charmer. She had 3 children with 3 different dads. Now there are four. One of the many warning signs is a lack of negotiating skills coupled with a domineering personality based in lies, pain and confusion.

There have been 8 undocumented instances of her hitting me, 2 more in 2011 where I was arrested for defending myself. And a third in Oct. where she attacked me at the children’s hospital and she was arrested because there was a witness.

She will stop at nothing to try and keep our son. She tried to have me arrested picking up my son at daycare, to no avail. I have seen her beat her then 7 year old son, watched the children while she lay unconscious and drunk on the floor. For hours.

She has blatantly displayed other men coming in through the house while I was watching our newborn, openly sexual in nature.

We have joint custody and she continues to ignore the basic stipulations in place and now have had to appoint a parent coordinator.

There is no truth, no finding a healthy resolution, and only fabrication and new ways to trap me with authorities.

Even after doing all my homework, and discovering this narcissistic, evil motivated, falsely based in God mother, it takes someone of a professional nature to listen, understand and offer guidance.

Sadly there is no way to find a level playing field with this person. And now that my assistance and money have run it’s course, she simply moved on to the next guy, naive enough to see the beauty and available unending barrage of sexual activity that will ensnare him for his turn.

When a woman only has her beauty, there is always one way to lock in your man. And when she is a nymph, it will take a long time to recover once the new man finds out he has been duped.

Thankfully I have joint custody or it would be a nightmare. I ran out of cash at the end of our agreement or I would have ordered a custody evaluation, and those two words literally made her and her atty. sign quicly.

God Bless to all the abused.

Stay focused in God’s word.

Peace.

Sorry Cole, But you are so off base. The borderline will push for custody if he thinks it will push your buttons, knowing full well he hasn’t the capability or desire. Borderline people are nearly impossible for us adults to deal with. Children must be protected.@ Cole Stuart

Let’s also not forget that BPD often have drug, alcohol, gambling and sexual deviant issues. My Ex BPD is a total wack job but living only with me the children are happy well adjusted, A+ students with a very fulfilling life. He has resurfaced recently like a cancer. I am back on line to learn not to react. @ Rob

Thank you for the comment Lori-I’m glad to hear your children are getting through the divorce so well. I hope you can find support and resources at Angiemedia’s excellent site. Welcome.

If I may respond to your comment.

I’m a lawyer–thank God not a family lawyer, but I know how the show is run. It’s often not pretty. My point is not that children do not need to be protected, but that government is not the best option. In fact, it’s a terrible option. Ideally, both parents behave. In my limited experience with courts–see Angiemedia’s reviews of Judge Lisa Schall–they often make not only bad decisions, but enable abusers such as my ex to continue their abuse. Sometimes the best choice is avoiding the worst. Someone said “Demoncracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” Maybe it was Michael Jackson.

I sympathize with your experience with a BPD/NPD–I had a horrific one in my life as well. Google Lynn Stuart. Google Cole Stuart, if you care to. My point, and I respect your own experiences that may influence you to disagree, is that court is a bad choice for family disputes. Perhaps we need more support for dissolving families and less judgment. Leaving any relationship is tough on everyone–It’s possible that our public tax dollars could be better spent on easing that pain that both parents and children are enduring than chosing a “winner” or a “loser.” I suspect that the temptation of “winning” or “losing” is in fact a major factor in causing divorces. And perhaps this is a lure to BPD/NPD types.

Welcome to our community Lori. Your opinions and experiences are valued.

Blessings to all.

I agree with “one of thousands”. However, just because someone is biologically related to the child, does not make them a parent. A sociopath is a dangerous individual and should not be allowed with children. Period. Why are we arguing custody? Clearly if a person has no conscience and is not able to be cured, the court or others should not grant custody just because they are related. In addition, with all the stories out there, if a man or a woman treats their spouse (either current or ex) in the ways described, what on earth do you think they will do to their kids when no one is watching?

In addition, my ex was a diagnosed sociopath in 2005, but that doesn’t count in the court’s eyes. When we divorced the only thing that kept him from getting full custody is that I took an “illegal” snapshot of his hard drive and he was scared that I had evidence of his child porn addiction. Unfortunately, browsing illegal sites is not considered illegal in Minnesota. He was smart enough not to download or distribute.

He also tried to kill the dogs while I was out on a business trip. He did this by not feeding them and convincing my son not to flush the toilets to see how gross it would get. It’s fun for a 6 year old, I’m sure. However, as he anticipated, the dogs were so hungry and thirsty they started eating and drinking out of the toilet. I came home early and had a large vet bill and an angry husband claiming “it only happened once…so I made a mistake, get over it!”. The dogs lived after treatment and I had to fumigate the upstairs living areas.
No remorse whatsoever on his part.

In a nut shell, now that he is dating a TV news anchor and she is eating up his victim stories and how his ex wife alienated him from his son (he has only called to talk to his son 4x in the past 2.5 years), he is also back “like a cancer”. She is his new meal ticket and he is acting his best, even better than when he fooled me. The courts only care about a dad’s rights, not the fact that he is a dangerous human being. They do not allow for an evidentiary hearing to include anything prior to the divorce decree in post decree matters. I can only use what evidence I have gathered of what he has done to me and his son in the few interactions we have had in nearly 3 years. I have most recently had to press mail fraud claims against him because he put in a false change of address on my accounts and stole my mail.

People like that should not be around children. Again, it’s not a matter of divorcing amicably. I would not have stayed married another minute if I thought I could protect my son from him and his family (his family is really, really bizarre). I only stayed married because that way I wouldn’t have to share custody and be afraid for my son. When I could no longer protect him by being there 24/7 and realized this after some instances of leaving him alone with my son, he only agreed to divorce if he didn’t have to pay child support (which he only keeps my son on his insurance, with no other support at all). Then he agreed to not to argue for custody as long as I kept his porn issues and other evidence of his behavior (including my attorney’s request for him to take a psycho-sexual eval) out of the public eye.

Now, his girlfriend, again a TV news personality, is convincing him of his rights. Oh, joy – the Hell starts anew!

@ Chris Hi Chris and Rob, Yes you are both right. My case was a child custody case that HE started. I was never trying to take away custody whatsoever. He was completely whacked on drugs and it was being fought in 2 states! No one would drug test him right away like I wished and since he can be very charming and convincing the drugs were my trump card. He put me into a horrible position with this custody game. I had no choice but a full out battle. (allow my young children to move in with him and his equally wacked girlfriend that he had known about 10 minutes, 2500 miles away??!!) Lucky for me he backed down anyway. He was really only after the money. Of course when he was done we had lost over a million dollars. Long ridiculous story but I feel fortunate that he mostly disappeared while the kids were small.

I did prove he was a liar and all I got for it was the judge saying “Mrs…appears to be the more credible one”. Then the guy disappears for months and is a no show for several appearances. Still he gets away with it. Finally he surfaces with new allegations claiming he gave me the money for the new house I bought ( I remoded homes for a living and had to do something ). Again he loses, again he disappears. Finally we do a motion to enforce the decree as we had agreed since he was going in debt with credit cards of about 100K, and surely planned to stick me with it. Another 2 no show and he resurfaces 10 minutes before it was to be finaled with new allegations. Again it was allowed to litigate…unbelievable.

He did this as a game to WIN, just as you stated and was never held accountable for the lies and the pain it caused. ( I accused his lawyer of helping to perpetrate this nonsense since my ex was so obviously high at the time). (Boy I could go on and on…kidnapping, extortion of over 50k, blah, blah) Then after all is said and done he hardly saw the kids at all for 4 years. Even remarried ( divorced now, again for 3rd time ) and moved to another country.

Now the kids are older and there is no money left to go to court, and our decree states that if we disagree the custodial parent will make the decision until we go to mediation first. HA HA, he’d never do that! Mediate? Only reasonable sane people do that! For the record he has the typical every other weekend and 1 midweek overnight, that in the 3 months he’s been here, has rarely exercised . HE’S TOO IMPORTANT, busy busy……

I do believe the court system failed me. Put me through hell for a year and a half and bankrupt me, so I do see and agree with your point. If it was an automatic 50/50 he would never had gotten to play his game. But the drugs would have been discovered! That would have been good. Maybe he could have gotten help and the personality disorders would have surfaced during rehab?? An overhaul of the system is in order!

For the record I did not know he had personality disorders back in 2005. I thought he was just on drugs…planned an Intervention but it failed……

After reading other peoples stories, I am feeling very fortunate with my situation. After much more investigation recently, I now suspect he has Anti-social personality and Narcissism. Whatever it is, he’s back, but I suspect he will move soon since he is SO important…and I won’t let him into my life again. He hates that..

So my advice.. Try to never talk on the phone..they know and love to push your buttons and will use it against you. Do not write any email that gives them an inch, keep it as business like as possible. Their 3000 abusive emails will be negated by your 1. Don’t give them more opportunity
to drive you mad…

Obviously you are in a no win situation. You have to learn to play a little dirty. If he can get away with murder..well so can you. You have tried being reasonable and cooperative, making you the perfect target.

I know the terror you feel with such young children. Mine were 3 and 6 when he went for custody. Now they are 10 and 13 and on to him. Not a captive audience to his B.S. and he is not really interested in all the work and responsibility being a parent is. My children now have convenient sporting activities, birthday parties and overnights. And he can kiss my a__. It will get better!
@ mominohio

@ Rob
Rob,

As you know, many judges behave as sociopaths, too. They will yank custody, throw people out of their homes, seize property, aid and abet theft, ban free speech, etc. even though what they are doing is illegal, unethical, and immoral. Many judges appear to intend to so badly damage the people they are abusing that those people will never be able to challenge them via appeal or judicial complaint or public campaign. This is why I believe that deviating from 50/50 custody should also require involvement of a jury of peers. No judge should have the authority to take such actions as judges routinely abuse their authority so egregiously that many of them are committing very serious fraud, defamation, and civil rights violations with intent to harm.

There need to be major reforms in judicial accountability to put an end to judicial criminality. Many of judges should be removed from the bench. Some deserve prosecution for their crimes and to be forced to pay restitution to their victims. In general I am not an advocate of the death penalty given the government’s frequent framing of innocent people for crimes and its refusal to re-evaluate a case when strong new evidence comes to light. But most of the crimes these judges commit are on the public record, the evidence is often not in significant question, and the number of people harmed goes beyond that of a simple robbery or murder and in some cases even beyond a deadly school shooting spree or terrorist bombing. Therefore there should be special rules of capital punishment for judges that subject them to execution when they have repeatedly and severely violated the rights of the people appearing in their courts.

A prime example of two judges who should be executed for their crimes are Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conohan of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. They ran a corrupt scam for several years in which they used their juvenile court judge positions to deny due process to children so as to incarcerate them in private prisons. In the process, they earned millions in kickbacks from the prison operator. Prison time and seizing all of their assets isn’t enough for these two judges. They deserve the death penalty.

Today’s widespread failure to hold judges accountable for their illegal actions severely undermines the public’s confidence in the government and laws. It threatens the ability of any family to withstand the government’s abusive assaults on its members. It also plays directly into the cycle of child abuse as the sociopath and the government both benefit from child abuse in different ways and collude to continue it. Their collusive criminality results in a new generation of abused kids who will often go on to abuse others similarly to what they observed during their childhoods because they think it is normal and appropriate behavior. This will keep the government busy and ensure full government employment as the ranks of social workers, judges, cops, etc. swell because the public is being duped into thinking that these people behaving as they typically do can actually improve anything when in fact it often making problems far worse.

Chris

@Jonathan

Jonathan, Please help me out Bro. I live in Tennessee. I am 100% certain I am divorcing a Sociopatic Woman!! I have lived in the nightmare for 5 years. I have a 14 month old son. I would fight to the end for primary parent, or sole custody, but I need to know the path to take. I feel like I have a very good attorney, I have at least 6 weeks of recordings prior to the papers being served that show her evil ways. Can you tell me how to go about getting her ordered to an evaluation? Or, anything that will help me… Thanks so much, Jim

Just recently, my son and my 6 yr. old grandson were given permission from a judge, three states away, to relocate with me. The mother of my grandson has been diagnosed as being a sociopath and has been in jail several times, with each offense getting worse and time in between being less. My son has been very abused over the last eight years. And now that my grandson’s mother is a meth-addict on top of everything else the abuse with him continually got worse until my son was awarded 100 percent custudy. I have done everything in my power to help my son and his boy to get away from their situation. They’ve been here for 3 months and she’s been in jail twice for felonies. Her new boyfriend is in prison on felony charges he got with her. This girl is 23 yrs. old. She exibits all of the symptoms of someone with A.P.D. I believe my son could have her rights dissolved, maybe meet a nice girl, put my grandson in counseling and get on with his life. If he’s able to do this, wouldn’t that be better for my grandson. He doesn’t have any kind of relationship with his mother and every couple of months when he has the oportunity to speak with her on the phone he seems very disinterested in her. She is very damaged via the court counselor and has been physically, emotionally abusive and manipulative to my grandson. I believe he might have a chance at a normal peaceful life without her.

Rob,
Just getting into this site and been reading alot of the posts lately. I never knew “sociopaths” existed until recently. I have been married to one (in my opinion) for about 5 years now. The whole time the abuse was happening, I searched for ways to make it go away. I even gave in to the distorted and whacky ideas she had about how I was the one with the problem. She had me thinking I was losing my sanity. This lady is so cold hearted, she has no conscience or feelings of remorse. She would push and push until I would leave, and then reel me back in again. Ive been on an emotional rollercoaster ride with my wife. I wanted this marriage to work so bad, that I fooled myself to believe that she would get better…things would be better in time, but it has never gotten better. I cant disclose all the reasons and examples of what makes me think she is ASP/Sociopatic due to the fact I’m just starting divorce litigation. I would beg the judge for custody of our 2 yr old son if it would help. I fear for his future because I feel like the next victim is just around the corner and my son will have to live through it as well. Is there any way I can pursuade the courts to belive what has happened and push for custody of my son? How?

Wow…may even be an ICHG female HR employment lawyer….named….who stalks me…BPD sociopath…

‘We figured out where you live’
“I can kick your ass, we’re blackmailing you’

..manipulate all day every day as as ‘victim’…for a decade…baiting and lose lose…control by proxy…alienation…CONTROL…Holiday Inn…ICHG….

Excellent advice Rob. Thank you for everything you do here.

Thank you to all who have put their stories out for others. I am so glad to know I am not alone. I was in a relationship for 15 years with a Sociopath (12 of which I was married). I am now trying to co-parent with this person and I watch the pain they cause my children and I feel like the court has tied my hands. I am $80,000 in legal fees and have barely proved to the court he is a liar. Even then they still believe he is a good parent. The court ordered evaluator, even felt he was a better parent than me. My oldest (12), amazes me everyday with how he has delt with the realization that this parent just does not care. He feels bad for his younger sibling who still believes in his father and is so supportive. I worry that he has had to grow up so quickly and cope, to protect himself from the hurt and pain having a sociopath as a parent has caused him.

I have read a lot of the posts and need more advice how to help my children through this, so they do not end up bitter and angry. I do not have the time to wait for the courts to catch up on the education of sociopathic behaviors.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story and help me.

I just came to the realization that i lived with a sociopath for 18 years.

We have been legally separated for almost 3 years and have 2 young children together.

Our legal interspousal agreement pertaining to our children is a joint custody arrangement with myself holding primary residence…this happened…luckily because he planned to move away just after i signed the joint 50-50 agreement, but i found out before i signed the agreement.

Because he moved…I found i also had to move to be able to work and parent full time…so i moved closer to his community…originally a 3 hr drive to just over a 1 hour drive to his community so the children would be able to see him more frequently and for longer times.

Recently…7 months ago…he relocated to my new community…with the pretense of spending more time with the children. He actually sees them for less time…but much more frequently..which at first was a godsend. My children are much more settled generally in this situation. He involved himself heavily in their extracurricular activities out side of school. However…in his coaching efforts…he was quickly discovered and had “stepped down” from Head Coach of my older childs team.

My concern…that i need some help with…is now that he is not involved with my older childs activity…he is encouraging my child to try other things…which isn’t a problem…the problem is now…my child doesnt want to do the original activity AT ALL and has all kinds of excuses…such as “the team sucks” “we never win any games” “the other kids on the team caused dad to not be a coach” I believe all of these things have been coached to him by his manipulative father…which i cannot say much…I want to be a good parent…I want his father to be a good parent…that won’t happen.

All I can think of to do…is to limit the “unplanned” time they spend together…without giving my ex any “ammunition” so he can lay blame at my feet.

The most exhausting part is spending my life trying to be 3 steps ahead and becoming very adept at reactive parenting.

I also noticed somewhere that modeling a “healthy relationship” for my children would be a good thing…Unfortunately i find myself hyperaware of ANY thing that could be considered manipulative…like this…I have one friend that has bought me a rose for valentines day….one small part of me thinks..”did he buy that so i don’t invite other men to my home while it sits on my counter” A big part of my brain KNOWS this is silly! but always that nagging thought! and there is a little thought like that with any man i even manage to build up enough confidence to talk to…

Please…any help would be awesome!

@ Rob
you are absolutely correct Rob…I have not given you nearly enough information….I have to admit i was excited at getting some advice and nervous about posting all the information needed to give better directed advice…i did post this while at work and was in too much of a hurry…I will take some time to answer all your questions and then get back…Thank you for what you have shared with me so far.

@Cole Stuart Interesting that the lesson taught to us by King Solomon should be that the true parent would NOT want to cut the child in half, yet that is exactly what 50/50 custody does: it splits the child in half between the two parents! For shared custody to work, the parents MUST be able to work together very closely… something that CANNOT be done when one is dealing with a sociopath.

@putkidsfirst Wise words Sir. Thank you. Like most, I know the fable well. In fact I’ve told it so many times I perhaps I’ve earned the reputation to call it my own.

We may perhaps differ on solutions to this problem of custody. If you ask me–and you didn’t so my apologies in advance–children love both parents even if the parents don’t love each other anymore. It’s sad we can’t all “just get along.” Our problem. Not the kids’.

Your child, I suspect, loves you and your mother with all of his or her heart. to deprive him or her from that ability to love may have consequences. Our current court system inflicts that deprivation regularly. I, as one man, think that depriving a child of time with his loving parents is horrendously cruel and about as pure an evil as exists. I will fight it, and its insidious consequences, until my last day on this planet.

My best to you Sir.

@Jonathan the last paragraph i completely understand.. nobody gets it until they actually see it for themselves. I loved the last part of your paragraph.. i too live in fear of the next step he takes toward attacking me.. what I have survived so far is a scene straight out of a movie often times I am in mourning that anything like this could be allowed to happen to me and my children. the manipulation the games the gaslighting completely horrific. I am so sad that my children have had to go through all this knowing he has NO love for them at all and only looks good when someone is watching so he can put on his act. My story I will have to post some time.. so many say I should write a book as my story is still going… i am on my way back to court to clarify orders that the socio uses any grey areas to bully us with there is no reasoning with HITLER my therapist who has a PHD has said of my ex husband.. indeed no reasoning with that mentailty many blessings to any and all who have endured and value integrity more than any dollar amount you can think of…. xoxo

I agree with your position assuming you have two loving parents who equally care for a child. But we are not talking about 2 normal parents who are contributing equally to the bickering. We are talking about co-parenting with a sociopathic partner. I am referring to someone suffering from Antisocial Personality Disorder, who lacks the ability to have empathy. Significant scientific research has shown that living with a sociopath puts the child at a great risk for developing the condition themselves. In fact, they recieve a double dose- they are genetically at risk and enviromentally at risk. That being said, sociopaths often pursue shared custody when their real agenda is to eliminate the loving parent later on down the road- AKA REVENGE. They fail miserably to consider what is really best for the child because they are not able to put the childs best intrest first. Children should not be subjected to this type of arrangement without a clear finding that the parents have hsitorically cared for a child equally. Like it or not, children often form stronger attachments to the parent they feel the most safe with- which in my expierence is NOT the sociopathic parent. Again, numerous studies tell us that the quality of a relationship between a parent and a child doesn’t hinge on the amount of time spent together but rather the QUALITY of time. So maybe we need to focus more on how to do that as oppossed to fighting over “splitting the prize”. @SD parent 22

Let’s get something something straight: cops are extra screwed by the DDVI and probate court. Anyone saying judges side with cops as a matter of practice is an idiot and a buffoon and should not be listened to. You should try to not get cops involved because they don’t want to be involved in domestic squabbles- it’s just more being lied to and a good chance they are going to be answering to an internal affairs complaint.
1. cops have a steady very attachable paycheck and a retirement which can be seized easily by the black-robed thieves.
2. cops carry guns – automatically reason to grant an RO.
3. when a cop gets a fraudulent RO on him, it’s desk duty, no OT. Often can mean termination and definitely a career killer.
4. when a cop is fired, it’s not like he can go down to the local union hall and get another job as a cop – he’s done. Start over sucker. And if you’re in your 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, you’re screwed.
5. A judge can order a cop to pay almost any amount in child support because there’s nothing the cop can do. What’s the cop going to do? Challenge it?

@Cole Stuart
I disagree strongly with your opinionated reply. You have obviously NEVER had to deal with a sociopathic parent and try with all your strength to fight a system that keeps allowing your children to be put into a dangerous, harmful situation. Not everyone has the perfect life; not all custody disputes are just 2 hurt adults. There really are bad people in the world, crawl out of your hole.

@putkidsfirst
EXACTLY!! Thanks for that great reply!

I am currently going through a divorce with a person who was diagnosed with BPD 3 yrs ago after I had her commited for an overdose on Xanax. We have been married for nearly 9 yrs now. I found that she was cheating on me and filed for divorce. My story is exactly like everyone else’s on this board, but I never really understood until recently what I had been through over the years. We are working on a settlement for 50/50 custody which is NOT what I want because I fear for the safety of my children, but at this point I don’t know what to do. My lawyer has asked for very strict restrictions on her in the settlement, which means I will have to keep taking her back to court when she violates court orders. She has falsely accused me of abuse against her when she is the one that drinks and takes out all of her problems on me. I have enabled her over the years by bailing her out of DUI’s, accidents, etc. I am usure of whether I can afford to fight this as her family has money and she has started a campaign against me. What should I do? Do I trust in the courts to follow through with the court orders? I have recently started seeing a counselor because of all of this. Please help.

@T. Moore

I would suggest you pursue 50/50 custody with an extensive set of safeguards designed to protect your kids and you.

If you pursue sole custody right away without trying this first, I personally think this can be confused with the tactics of a sociopath. Many Borderlines or other sociopaths are very good at projecting that their victims are the ones engaging in abuse and if you show even the slightest sign of any “mean” behavior, they will find a way to portray themselves as the victim and you as the abuser and your behavior (even if it is normal under the circumstances) as “proof” of your abusiveness.

You need at least two major safeguards for your situation, possibly more but I am just going by what you have described so far.

First, you need a court order that everybody in the family (all kids and both parents) are in mandatory court ordered therapy with a court order that states all therapists must discuss any abuse reported by anybody in the family (either parent or the kids) before they can file a CPS or police report.

Second, your ex should be required to be monitored by a psychiatrist or drug abuse clinic and these people should be under court order to contact all three therapists in writing with any concerns about continuing drug abuse or to report compliance with the drug abuse prevention measures they are using with your ex.

US family law courts are horrible and you should not trust them an inch unless you see you are one of the few who gets a competent judge who is not corrupt.

Sociopaths like taking everything to court. They love the drama, the feeling they can “win” even if it just means they made you waste thousands on an attorney. A good book to learn more about this is Bill Eddy’s High Conflict People in Legal Disputes.

There’s a great article on the “win by hurting others” attitude prevalent among sociopaths at Shrink4Men that can help you with some insights. Expect that you will be a target for abuse and harassment that will not stop for years, if ever.

You need support that probably goes beyond what you can afford from therapists. I recommend websites like this one, reading some of the books I’ve mentioned in past articles, and support sites such as these:

BPD Family Message Board

Borderline Personality Disorder Forum

Also you may try to find a local support group for targets and family members of sociopaths, Borderlines, and/or Narcissists. If you live outside a big city region, this may be hard to do so on-line groups may be more practical.

Be cautious about how you engage in support groups as you don’t want your sociopathic ex to stalk you via your involvement or to take your words and use them against you in court.

Rob

Rob,
Thanks. These are great suggestions and I will speak to my lawyer about getting these into the settlement agreement or court ordered. He believes it is only a matter of time before she shows her true colors and violates court orders. So do the people that know her well (mutual friends) and myself. It may take some time but I will have to be patient and let it play out. Just yesterday she told me I was harrassing her (she called me) and I had better behave or she would circulate a picture around that she has. I have no worries of this as I know I didn’t do it and have documented the numerous times she stays out late or all night long and comes home with scratches/bruises on her. Additionally, her new boyfriend has CDV’s on his record. I believe this helps my case. I also keep an audio recorder at all times (I live in a 1 person consent state) based on my lawyers suggestion. After reading numerous articles and websites I expected this. I have limited our engangement with each other but still have to deal with her because of the children.

I have in the settlement that I can request an Alcohol/Drug screening at any time I suspect she has been drinking/taking drugs around the children. Her and I both have therapists at the moment (she actually has 2), which my insurance pays for. I also have authorization from my insurance to get my children into therapy. I have joined a support group at my church for divorcee’s (she has no idea I am going). I am doing everything I can to keep myself healthy in all this mess. I am getting a restraining order against her boyfriend in the settlement as he has threatened to hurt me (of which I can provide proof). There is also a “no contact” clause on him to be around my children (at least until we are officially divorced). I will keep you posted. Thanks for the advice and information.

T. Moore

@T. Moore

The audio recorder idea is excellent. In most jurisdictions it is legal to record in public settings without consent from anybody else. I would advise you to wear one or better two recorders on you at all times if you are doing custody exchanges, attending school performances or events, or going anywhere else that your ex may know where to find you.

Never do custody exchanges in a private residence or a location that does not have a lot of neutral people around. Never get close to your ex, either. All it takes to land you in jail is that she approaches you, falls on the ground or can show she has some bruise or other injury, and then falsely claims you pushed or hit her. If you are never within 100 feet of her, this is much less likely to happen.

Get a recorder that can run at least 8-10 hours on a charge and has at least 24 hours recording capacity. It should also have USB connectivity and preferable record in MP3 format so you can easily keep a record of all the recordings on your computer.

Keep some spare charged batteries in your car. Eneloop rechargeable batteries are really good for this as they have a very slow discharge rate while not being used as compared to most other batteries. You can expect they will hold most of their charge for at least six months and maybe over a year whereas many other types will be nearly fully discharged after even just one month sitting in a car.

You may also want to experiment with where to wear recorders on you (pocket, jacket, some kind of strap that keeps it under your shirt, etc.) for best recording quality. Part of the problem with recorders is that they often pick up the sounds of you walking as your clothes and items you are carrying are moving around. This can drown out what you want them to be recording. Wearing or carrying two recorders in different places can sometimes overcome this problem.

I would strongly advise you to never talk with your ex on the telephone. At least use email, better yet is something like Our Family Wizard or Share Kids that makes it easier to get the communications prepared for court.

If you must talk with her such as in some emergency involving the kids, be sure to have it on speakerphone and have multiple witnesses. Some say it would be a good idea to record it even it if is technically illegal. Realistically there is little chance you are going to be prosecuted for recording a phone call even in a 2 party consent state if you don’t misuse the recording for some purpose such as extortion or harassment. Having proof of what was said or not said can make the difference between you ending up in prison or losing custody of your kids when she lies the next time.

Get your kids into therapy as soon as you possible can. It takes time for kids to become comfortable with a therapist. You want them to be able to be open with the therapist if and when your ex and her boyfriend are abusing them or engaging in substance abuse.

You may also need to get court orders stating that the children’s therapist is their sole therapist so that your ex cannot “therapist shop” to have your kids see mutiple therapists. This is a common tactic for sociopathic women in particular as they know if they find some misandrist therapist (usually women, but there are men who fall into this category, too) who believe that all men are abusers and all women are victims, it is easy to get these therapists to collaborate at filing false abuse reports against you or engaging in some other crime.

Restraining orders usually do not protect men from abusive women. The cops seldom will arrest a woman who violates a restraining order due to their sexist bias fed by training that says only men are violent and dangerous. There’s also a risk that a restraining order may incite a truly violent person into worse violence than without one.

It’s routine for today’s restraining orders to be used as a means to abuse other people. It is so easy to get one based upon false allegations with no hearing and no chance to defend against it prior to issuance. Then the abuser will parade it around to everybody (teachers, childcare providers, doctors, churches, etc.) as “proof” the restrained party has done something wrong to build a community of hate used to further abuse and alienate the children from the falsely accused parent.

I believe that in most instances courts should be issuing mutual keep away orders rather than restraining orders on one party prior to when adequate due process has run its court to ascertain what has occurred and who is at fault. This takes some of the “blame and judgment” out of the process and it can be portrayed as routine safeguard rather than a commentary on allegations (false or otherwise).

It sounds like you have proof of your allegations, but just remember that when you focus even justified accusations and blame on a sociopath it is common that the sociopath will react with further violence and maliciousness. They can be very devious about the next means they use to harm you. Be prepared for that.

Rob

@Rob
Rob,
I have an excellent recorder that has noise cancellation and a slow rundown time on batteries (along with all the other things you suggested. I have limited my contact with her and record every time we are around each other. She hasn’t “officially” moved out yet and based on the settlement I will be the one moving out, but that is fine by me. The house will be paid off (her mom) and I can move my VA loan to another, less expensive home as long as I stay in the same school district. She is now controlling me financially because she hasn’t paid any of our mutual bills in 2 months (she has the money, trust fund) but would rather spend it on herself instead of help support our children. I am trying to prepare and learn about everything that she will try to do to me. This and the websites you have suggested have been a great help in getting me prepared for what’s to come. I know it will be a long road but will be worth it in the end. My children are my life and I would do anything for them, no matter the cost. As of yet she has no idea of the recordings and I sent your suggestions to my lawyer to get them worked into the settlement. She admits many things and shows her true colors on these recordings. She has also cut herself at least 3 times that I know of in the last 3 months. She has come home after being out all night with scratches and bruises all over with some story of giving someone a ride home she didn’t know and he attacked her (recorded). These things I may be able to submit as proof of her instability and lack of judgement. Regarding the phone contact, she calls to say goodnight to the children but we usually don’t say anything to each other, I just hand the phone to the girls. I have learned from these sites not to engage her any more than I have to. She just tries to suck me back in with her drama and now that I am aware of it I can ignore it. I will keep you posted.

Thanks,
T. Moore

Rob,
I have a question maybe you can help me with. I have been covering all the bills for 2 months now even though she still uses the house and is still responsible for her part of the bills. How do I go about asking her for money for the bills to help support the children until everything is settled without causing an argument? Do I do it through the lawyer’s? I tried this and I got $250 and that was it, which doesn’t cover much. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

T. Moore

@T. Moore

You may have to ask for a court order for her to pay her share of the expenses. You can try to get her to stipulate to something reasonable, but I suspect she will play games and delay this for months or forever. So you are probably going to need to file a motion in court to get an order for her to pay. If she does not pay in accordance with that order, then you can attempt to get an order to garnish her wages or seize portions of her assets to cover what she owes.

I don’t know of any likely way to get a person who behaves as you say your ex does to be fair or reasonable except by judicial force. Truth be known, even that is usually not enough.

You should ask yourself if it is worth it. If it is going to cost you forty hours of legal bills to get $1000 out of her, it is probably not worth it from a financial angle. Then again, if you have a competent judge who is willing to throw her in jail for contempt of court then maybe it is worthwhile because it may help you protect the kids from her abuse.

Rob

‎.
Has anyone here ever encountered a person who
suffers (or causes others to suffer) from an odd
case of ‘Golden Uterus’ Syndrome (GUS)?
.
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/05/17/does-your-wife-or-ex-wife-have-a-golden-uterus-complex-15-characteristics-of-the-golden-uterus/
.

Reading this site scares the crap out of me.

Unlike may of you. I have had a reasonably happy marriage (20+ yrs), and a reasonably happy family. Another woman that we both knew and trusted acted like she was “open minded” and into “alternate relationships”, it took my wife a lot of trust to allow that. But then from the moment this woman got pregnant – she tried to use that as leverage to force me into divorce and marry her. It became like a contest, she put my family through hell, she was totally oblivious to the suffering she caused anybody.

Looking back, it should have been obvious. This woman can’t hold down a friendship or a relationship to save her life, I don’t know why we thought things could be any different with us. Rather than seeing us as open minded, I think she saw us as an easy target to try and get a marriage that she couldn’t get otherwise. Getting pregnant was how she obligated the last sucker she was married to. Which was another warning sign, because looking back it should have been clear to me that she absolutely hated everything about my personality, beliefs, and who I was. I was blinded by love, but why would she want to marry somebody so badly – that she hates? It appears that marriage is about her status and reputation, something to make her look good in social circles and to show up her family, love is totally irrelevant.

To get an idea of who she is, when our son was born, I didn’t want him circumcised, so she of course promptly had him circumcised to show me who was boss. Now, I understand that this procedure is done by millions of parents who love their kids, but not to show up the other partner who is the boss.

On the one hand she would say that I “owed her a baby”, but then on the other she would accuse me of trying to trick or force her into a relationship that she didn’t want.

Also, I just skimmed the link above about (GUS) – yes that seems a lot like her. Why did she want a marriage when it was also clear that she thinks men are totally irreverent? And when I google “sociopath checklist” and read it, she lights them up like a Christmas tree.

My son is 3 now, and we’ve managed to keep this out of the system and the courts even though she has had plenty of guys in and out of her life since then that she wanted to rip my son out of my life and give to them each time. I think she wants to avoid the system because she doesn’t want to be discovered, and I don’t want to deal with the legal system because I know it is expensive and fucked up. However, My family and I have gone through hell and back over the last several years, and I don’t like the situation that my son is in at all, and I consulted with a lawyer this week.

I don’t want a to go into the legal system, but I don’t know what else to do. I’ve tried logic and reason, tried appeasement and treating her nice, tried bribing her by paying support money early and lots of other extras, tried getting her into a visitation contract which I finally got – but it still went to hell.

I think the straw that broke the camels back was her most recent boyfriend happens to be a cop. It became pretty clear to me that she intends to try to use him as a weapon against me. When I first saw him, I was actually relieved that he didn’t appear to be a psycho, now it seems like she intends to take her battle to a new level. I don’t think I have any choice but to get a good lawyer and battle it out.

@APG

“Golden Uterus Syndrome” is pretty much the rule for a woman with a personality disorder who has kids. There’s no exact equivalent to it for personality disordered abusive men because society has decided that being a mom is “the world’s hardest job” and that women can do whatever they want with little if any accountability.

If you’re a Shrink4Men reader, you should listen to the audio programs that Dr. T and Paul Elam put on that are linked to from that site. They are really insightful and very balanced, contrary to the drivel in most of mainstream media that says it is fine for a woman to beat a man, attempt to kill him in his sleep, etc. and we should all understand her pain because of course “men are bad” and “women are good”. In reality, evil and abusive behaviors are to be found in both genders and in more or less equal levels. It is our society that is broken to the point that a man who raises a hand to defend himself against an attack by an abusive woman will go to jail and a woman who attempts to murder a man who has never even been accused of violence against her will be let off with little if any consequence.

I just want to add, there’s no offense intended to the many good women out there by the Shrink4Men folks or any of us here. And if you listen to Dr. T and Paul Elam on their talk show, this comes across all the more clear as they advocate for the end of gender bias and towards better understanding and relations between men and women.

Rob

@davidc

If I understand what you mean about the “alternative relationship” thing, in a typical Western culture it is nuts to get involved in that as there’s a high chance that somebody wanting it has problems ranging from attachment issues all the way to a personality disorder. I say this in part because I’ve heard details of another case involving “swingers” that reminds me a bit of your situation with the outcome of a probable Borderline mom having sole custody of an alienated son and the target father ending up in prison over lies and distortions.

As you are finding out, there is no way to enforce an agreement with a crazy person. These people will often agree to something and then violate the agreement. They even do this when you agree to their proposal. And frequently they then try to blame you for the violation.

A psycho ex with a cop boyfriend is hugely dangerous. Far too often, the difference between a cop and a criminal is really only the uniform and the source of their pay. That’s not to say that all cops are abusers as there are some good cops. But because of the “blue wall” the dirty abusive cops tend to stay on the police force because their “better” coworkers function as silent accomplices by failing to do anything to weed out the bad ones.

Tactics that cop boyfriends and cop friends have been known to use to harass people in your position include:

1) Filing false police reports

2) Harassment at custody exchanges, including unwarranted police stops and arrests — I know of one case where this has happened over a dozen times outside of a court-ordered supervised exchange center, so literally there may be nowhere in the cop boyfriend’s jurisdiction or sphere of influence (such as adjacent jurisdictions) that you can be safe from this abuse if the cop decides to participate in harassing you.

3) Pursuit of baseless criminal investigations including raiding a person’s home at gunpoint with a mass of police officers, many of whom have been lied to by the abusive cop about why this is happening

Remember that cops carry guns, too, and are known to shoot and kill people without cause.

I think you should get a lawyer, possibly two of them including a family lawyer and a lawyer specializing in police abuse cases. Discuss the possibility of them filing a formal notice on the police department warning them that you are being harmed and harassed by your ex (be sure to provide some evidence of this, such as documented court order violations) , she has a pattern of using her new relationships to help her harass you, and that as she now has a police officer boyfriend that if he becomes involved you will file complaints, litigation, and disclosures to the public media against the police department, city, county, or other political subdivision that is running the police department over any harassment incidents. Your attorneys might consider asking that the cop’s supervisors put him on notice that he will be watched closely because of his relationship with your ex.

Be careful not to accuse or even imply the cop of has done anything wrong if he hasn’t done so. You want him to feel like he has an out, that he didn’t know how nuts this woman is, and that his supervisors are rightly worried about the situation based upon your ex’s past actions and their potential liability now that he could become involved.

A regular family law attorney will probably be out of his or her realm in this kind of situation, that is why I think you may want to have a second attorney with experience in police abuse cases. Preferably it would be one who has won a successful police abuse suit against the police department involved as then they would be more likely to take a warning letter seriously.

Rob

these are not normal feuds, and the children are harmed as well. socios DO NOT have any capacity for compassion or have to have a reason for acting out. I have not ever given my ex a reason “other than following visitation schedule” which he does not like, even giving extra time and cordial I do this because my sons relationship with his father although superficial, is importatnt to him and up until recently have met each challenge, such as leaving him alone at skating rinks, (he was 8 at the time, leaving him alone in a steam room full of naked men repeatedly just to name a couple of bizarre behaviors. my ex has been counseled and “agreed to” every suggestion and turns around and does exactly as he pleases. His behavior is escalating this past year and he has threatened to take me back to court for priveleges he is already enjoying! I have been told that before I can really take my son out of harms way is if someone gets hurt first. Then I would be able to at least get supervised viaitation. I love God and have made many sacrifices and taken some covert abuse and still try to stand on my feet as Gods child in this situation.
Its kind of like trying to tell someone your house is burning daown and them telling you here is a glass of water to put it out I am sure it will be fine.
I hope he doesnt do irreversible physical harm first before somethiing can be done

this is so awesome! I have felt so alone in my trials and in dealing with my ex and I am thankful to have stumbled upon this website/article! you are all so brave and strong – now that I know what i am dealing with, I can be too!

A small town community, dealing in custody when civil is unlawful, and my ex husb Toby has messed up the minds so bad of the kids 2 r now with others ans smaller 2 with him. The cid has tipped him, upon me reporting him rapping me, nothings been done. My P>O was transf n disappeard?????? None wud have happen if 1st the sherriff office read n complied with my child custody papers in the first place. My babies are medded up in the head n hes been granted a new upcoming year!!!!!!!!!!! he has contempts and the worst his mother Jimmie Snow. Both out of Baxter County Mt.Home Arkansas. I am deathly fearful. n thank you -479-220-0069

I had a horendous family case that the Father was a sociapath along with his wife. If lasted 10 years, and left me, my daughter age 18, and my mom suicidal due to the abuse of the HOUSE OF HORROR FAMILY LAW.

The Judges, court appointed attonreys for kids and mediation people are the socipaths not us. WHAT HAPPENED to family matters first in America but more our kids are toremented..

I disagree with you as THERE ARE SICK FATHERS that drag their ex-s because they can’t get a hint as to why we divorceds them……

Missy, I am with you. It does not matter what is agreed to. He will do what he wants anyway.

I am the mother of a teen with mood disorder who lashed out violently at siblings and me, decided he hated me and would rather live with socipath dad. I was very uncomfortable in allowing that, as I knew his problems would get worse, not better. I did not want to split the baby so I acquiesced to his desire without protest. Father was happy to have the boy hate me – and he fed into that from day one. He was also happy to deny the need for treatment for any of the boy’s mounting troubles. Over 2 years, dad managed to completely alienate that child from me and blame me for it. That child is now in prison. Dad has his eyes on the others now.

The other teens, upon mutual agreement, have lived with me with Father having as liberal a visitation schedule as he has requested – though overnights were restricted until recently because he refused to comply with a restriction on alcohol and intoxication (“high functioning” alcoholism is another of his problems). Father, in the meantime, has used his freedom to re-invent himself with a new woman, soon to be live-in lover, whose dream it is to have the children removed from my residence and re-united residentially with sociopath dad. Fun events, luxurious accommodations, home-cooked gourmet dinners and an active social scene is what they have lured the children with to date.

My dilemma is this. What is worse: throwing the children to the lions (alcoholic sociopath and his next victim/mistress?) or fighting to maintain stability in their lives for just a bit longer. It is no longer about me – as option #1 would be way easier than caring for, paying for and helping direct the lives of three teens. Option #2 is the battle – that will leave them scarred in its own way, too… Hmmm. I do pray for God’s direction in this. I know He’s here.

@Rob
Rob, I am a stepmother to a 12 yo. girl. I have been with her father for 5 years and have experienced his pain in dealing with his ex who I believe has mental issues that meets some of the criteria of a sociopath. She lies, manipulates, bullies, “forgets” her own agreements, uses her daughter as a go between, undermines and badmouths the father, never takes responsibility, changes plans to suit herself, refuses some child exchanges, really has no consideration for others, transfers her own character flaws onto my husband – even calling him the narcissist! But as long as she is outwardly stupidly nice and plays dumb, no one is the wiser. That goes for the awful bipolar (female) judge sitting on the court case last year in Spokane Washington where my husband tried in vain to prove that the mother’s parenting was damaging his daughter. (our) daughter has been progressively getting worse even with counseling and he believed he had to do something because he just could not get through to the mother by any other means.
Despite proof that my husband and the ex deviated from the alternating weekend schedule outlined in the parent plan (since the child was 4), giving my husband 2 days per week, the judge upheld the custodial parent’s very recent and arbitrary decision to revert back to the original plan. He lost 4 days per month. Now the girl has spiraled down and the mother believes she is untouchable – up to her old tricks whereby hurting this child.
My request for you: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep communicating to people that sometimes there are bad mothers and good fathers out there! My husband was heartbroken; devastated. I want people to know, mothers can be just as evil if not more and this is why we have so many fathers who “walk away”. I never understood before, how fathers could up and walk away. I understand now! How do we change the Family Court’s view that mothers are the natural choice? Thank you so much.
– I tried to reply to a post but I don’t know if it actually stuck. Sorry if this is duplicated – New to the site.

@ Juli

Your earlier replies did get stored, I approved only the latest version of your comment.

Sometimes readers have been confused by the comment moderation system not showing their comments immediately.

We used to let many comments get posted right away, but after repeated problems with harassment and spam and the inability of spam filters to get rid of all spam without also throwing out some non-spam comments, we moved to a moderated comment approach.

We have added a note about the comment moderation and hope that it will be more clear that it can take a day or sometimes more for comments to appear after they are posted.

Your situation is very common. I used to think that having a precise label for the behaviors of the sociopathic parent was useful, but have seen far too often that trying to precisely label the behaviors seems to cause courts to turn against the abused parent and side with the abusive parent.

There is still value in figuring out what psychological label applies best to the abusive parent, but it mostly lies in how you can then use it in your own reading and therapy working on the problems with people who are not idiots when it comes to psychological conditions like so many judges are.

The behaviors you mention are very familiar. They can be part of a few psychological conditions such as Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Antisocial Personality Disorder. There are certainly other possibilities, too, however I would say that any reading you can do on BPD and NPD will help you and your husband understand the situation better.

It is likely the mom grew up in an abusive home and learned to become an abuser herself. People who behave as you describe cannot be reasoned with or negotiated with. The only thing they understand is force, but if you or your husband try to apply such force you will find yourselves with a restraining order and no-contact or even in jail. When the courts as they usually do refuse to use justifiable force to make them behave, then these abusers learn they can do anything and get away with anything.

The “transfer her own character flaws onto my husband” comment refers to the psychological term of “projection”. This is highly common for these abusers to do. They cheat, lie, have affairs, steal, break the law, etc. and then falsely accuse their victims of doing those things. Because they are often very emotionally intense, they can appear convincing to people who lack understanding of personality disorders and sociopathic behaviors. It’s been said that 90% of communications is emotion, and these abusers are often masters at manipulating people’s emotions.

One of the handful of people we respect in the community of court-ordered professionals that has some good insights on how the system is failing many families says that most often the courts refuse to protect the children from abusers like the mom you describe until one or more of the children end up in serious trouble or dead. This sounds like the pattern in place in your family. This person also believes that child custody matters do not belong in family law courts at all because courts, being an adversarial system, encourage conflict and and worsen problems that could be resolved with other approaches.

Sociopaths can be men or women. Being a mom doesn’t mean that one cannot be a sociopath, far from it.

Probably the only ways to be safe from a sociopath are to imprison the sociopath or to hide yourself away from the sociopath. This is part of what parents who have been abused for years finally realize — they cannot have a relationship with their kids and remain safe from the sociopath. Some of them choose to stay and fight, knowing that every day they and the children are suffering and each day carries with it a risk of some horrible atrocity (false child abuse allegation, false DV allegation, false rape allegation, defamation that gets them fired from their jobs, etc.). Others realize the situation is so bad that the only tenable thing to do is to retreat and disappear. Neither is a good choice, but these are usually the only options available because the courts by and large will not do their jobs in these cases.

My advice on how to change the perception that mothers should generally always get the kids is to first start with educating yourself more:

1) Read up on father’s and men’s rights groups. There are some very excellent groups that are far more gender neutral than feminists and traditionalists. There are also a few extremist groups caught up in mother-bashing because they fail to see how this is just the reverse of what has been done to them and is also wrong. I suggest you ignore the extremists and focus on learning something from the others.

The excellent groups back equal treatment under the law for all people regardless of gender. Many feminists and traditionalists hate these people and behave as sociopaths themselves, engaging in defamation, lying, and projection trying to keep the general public from learning the truth that most of these people are very reasonable and are only asking for equal protection under the law which is exactly what the US Constitution says they should get.

I’d recommend you start with some of the writings and videos of “Girl Writes What” who is a strong advocate of gender fairness and who writes for A Voice for Men. A good first article to read might be Fathers At Christmas because it touches on the experience you are heading towards in which a great father may not be able to see his daughter much through no fault of his own.

2) Read up on children’s rights efforts, including writings and videos by kids and adult children damaged by abusive parents. For example, here’s a video on a statement by a 15 year old boy who is a child of divorce in front of a legislative committee in Georgia regarding shared parenting.

3) Realize that there is substantial vested interest by the government in maintaining the status quo, even though this is causing tremendous damage to children and good parents. See Gender Polarization Impedes Family Law Reform and Government By Sociopaths, For Sociopaths Dooms Family Law Reform Efforts for additional thoughts on this. The government is not going to fix these problems until the cost of the status quo is far beyond the benefits they gain from the current dysfunctional and abusive family law system.

Once you think you are up to speed on the above issues, then maybe you can consider engaging in some activism in your area of the world. Be prepared that you will be attacked for “betraying your own gender” and other such nonsense, and point out that there are a lot of mothers who also believe that family law reform is badly needed and many of these moms fully acknowledge that good fathers are being maltreated believe that there is corruption throughout the courts. See Laura Lynn’s website and the Facebook page of Janette M. Isaacs for starters.

Rob

I do not agree that 50/50 custody works in all situations. Certainly not in mine.

that is sad, i had the same experience with the good ole boy system, due to Robin DeVito, she made threats to put my daughters in foster care, and i lost custody reporting her and didn’t see my kids for 2 yrs. they were a mess when i saw them 2 yrs later.

they are in their 20’s and constantly bring up this case from hell, so there is another generation of kids being slaughtered.

@Chris

I’m so glad I found this website. I want to share my story and also get some advise on what to do. I’ll start from the beginning.

When I was younger I thought I was a “Player” and I honestly was a jerk and I’ll admit that. In my Senior year of high school one of the girls I was fulling around with got pregnant. I wore protection but she still ended up getting pregnant. Overall, she honestly was a nice girl, but very naive, so I thought. She was very quiet and shy acting. She was from a smaller school and a christian home. At the time I had no intentions of having a child or settling down. Though I was a big “player” I always said to myself and my friends that if I ever had a child I would be a good father and try to do the right thing.

She already had a child when she was only 15 years old. She told me the guy who she had her first child with was a jerk and that he tried to abuse her and she didn’t want him to have contact with her daughter. I used to talk to her on the phone and would console her when she was going through tough times with him. We grew close, and though I was messing with other girls at the time, she was a good friend and she grew very attached to me. So much so that she actually poked holes in the condom to purposely get pregnant. I found this out from a letter she sent to me after she was pregnant. She actually admitted it. I should have known from that point to run for the hills. I still have that letter.

The fact that she did this didn’t matter to me as far as being there for my son was concerned. I thought at the time, even though I didn’t really want to settle down, the best thing to do would be to work through it and stay faithful from here on out and make a real relationship out of this for the sake of our son.

As time unfolded I started seeing just how crazy she was. We actually stayed together for several years and I never once cheated on her. However, she cheated on me at least twice that I know of. Just to give you an example of how twisted she can be I’ll give you this brief story…

I went to college in New York after graduating HS but ended up coming back to PA because I couldn’t stand the thought of being away from my son. We both lived with our parents at the time. One evening, after spending the day at her house, she decided she wanted to leave and back to my parents house where we would have more privacy. I noticed that she was getting all dulled up and putting on make-up. I asked her what she was getting all dressed up for and she said “no reason”. I drove out to her house in my own car and she asked me if I would go ahead and take my son and her daughter back to my house with me and she would be there shortly. I agreed and loaded the kids up proceeded back to my house. After being home for about an hour and still no sign of her, called her house and she never answered. At this time I think we had pages so I paged her several times and she never responded, even after a couple of hours. I finally decided to go out looking for her. While doing so I remembered that friend of my father’s (a bartender) told my dad several weeks prior to this, that she saw my baby’s mother in the bar with this guy I went to school with and they seemed to be talking and kind of laughing romantically over drinks. I honestly didn’t even believe it, but something told me to check this guy’s house because I knew he always had parties at this place on the weekends. Well, my hunch was correct. I pulled up to his place and heard music blaring. I got the nerve up to go knock on the door and keep my cool. As someone opened the door, I saw her behind a crowd of people with a drink in her hand and she ran to the back when she saw me. I asked them to tell her to come out. She never did and never came back to my place.

The reason for even telling that story is to demonstrate what kind of person I’m dealing with. Not only did she lye about coming to my place she had me take my son and HER DAUGHTER and she never showed up. There was another incident similar to this and I caught her with her ex. After getting cheated on at least twice and lied to about all kinds of small things and big things I finally broke off the relationship. It happened after she threw her engagement ring at me several times over really, really childish arguments. I told her that if she did that one more time (throwing the ring at me) that I was not going to give it back to her and that we are through. I didn’t take our relationship lightly and for her to keep doing that, I just could not take it after everything else that happened with her. Well she ended up doing it again and this time I was through. Unfortunately, she was pregnant…again. This time she told me while we were together that she was getting the shot. Well, after I caught her cheating she knew our relationship was on thin ice and she stopped getting the shot and didn’t tell me. Yeah, I know, it’s like something out of a soap opera.

When she realized that I was serious about calling it quits, she really showed her true colors. She told me that she was going to make my life a living hell. She actually said that. From that point on she was hell bent on destroying me.

My son and I were very tight. I had a great relationship with my son and her daughter. I spend every single day with them before this happened. I mean every day. She knew how close I was to him and her daughter. As soon as I broke it off she started saying ” I left her and our family” even though she would not let me see them. She told me if I would not take her back, she was not going to let me be a part of my children’s lives.

When my daughter was born, she didn’t call me. I talked to her off and on and tried to be civil with her. I had a feeling she wasn’t going to let me know when she had our daughter. She even told them not to put it in the newspaper so that I wouldn’t find out. She didn’t tell me until about a week after she had our daughter. She let me see her one time on her own.

She ended up taking me for child support even though I was giving her money every month even when we were together because she still lived with her parents. When we went in for the child support hearing she tried to lie and say I have never gave her a dime. Luckily, I listened to my mother and always paid her with a check. They were going to make me pay a ton of back child support. I showed them my canceled checks and they started making me pay $500/month for my son. When my daughter was born, she went back and they raise the order to $768/month. This absolutely killed me. I was working a sales job at a wireless company at the time. When they first set the amount, I was making decent money, but the company I was working for changed our commission structure and new competition in our industry left me making about half of what the support was drawn upon. I lost my car and my credit got ruined. I honestly was not even making enough to pay my rent and eat.

I wanted to see my kids badly but I had no money for a lawyer and I was so sick of going through all of the drama with her. I eventually got help from my mom with getting a lawyer and sued her for my visitation rights. The judge decided on every other weekend and since my daughter didn’t know me, we had to go through this children’s services agency to supervise the visits so that everything would go smooth and to introduce me to her gradually. I went along with everything. There was still always drama though.

She would constantly make excuses to not show up. I filed for a contempt of court hearing because she refused to follow the orders and she always made a huge fuss and made it very uncomfortable for everyone when I would pick up my son.

She got so angry that I was fighting her to see my son that she falsely filed a PFA on me. The police came to my job. It was so embarrassing. I was working for a bank at the time and they called me down to the lower floor because “someone was here to see me”. To my surprise I was greeted by two police officers. She said that I drove out to her house the night before and shot at her house.

When we went to court for the PFA the judge saw right through her. Being that my contempt of court hearing and the PFA were both domestic issues. My lawyer asked the court to hear both cases that day. She tried put me in jail but she actually ended up with a 7 day suspended jail sentence instead. I could put her in jail if she kept on acting like this.

Well, it really didn’t matter. She didn’t even care and she knew I wouldn’t put her in jail. Thinking back on it, I probably should have did it, but I just couldn’t. She made it such chaos when I would bring my son back and she always tried to get out of it. I honestly was drained. I was drained financially and emotionally.

There was one incident that finally broke me. After fighting for visitation and threatening her for several weeks (with contempt) after not seeing my kids, I got her father to talk her into letting me see my son. She absolutely refused to let me see my daughter, and it was emotionally tough, because my daughter would cry every time she would have to come with me. She was very attached to her mother and she really didn’t want anyone else.

When I brought my son back to her house she came out to get him even though she wasn’t suppose to. We were supposed to go through her parents to avoid confrontation. She ran to the door and snatched him from me. He was maybe 4 years old at the time. She snatched him so fast he was trying to say his goodbyes my mom and I. My mom stayed in the car. She thought my mom was my girlfriend and when my son was saying goodbye, his words got twisted because of all the tension. He said, “bye daddy…By Ma…Grand…” SNATCH!!! She thought he was calling my girlfriend mom (actually it was my mom in the car). He was crying and it really got to me.

I had been through so much fighting with her, that I was all out of fight. I decided that it just wasn’t worth putting the kids through it. I felt like by me trying to see my kids I was actually hurting them. They didn’t need to go through this constantly and I actually cared enough to not take them away from her. My babies mother was adopted and she didn’t know her biological parents. This had a huge effect on her and I think she would have literally went crazy (crazier) if I would have took our kids away. So I backed off. I was completely beat – emotionally and financially. I just surrendered. I gave up. I couldn’t do it anymore.

I figured she would come around eventually and over the years she would have her moments. She wants to be in control. As long as I’m paying her child support and not trying to be in my kids lives she’s fine. She ended up getting married and my Son is now 15 and my daughter is 11. I’m happily married as well. I have two other kids and my son actually talks to my oldest son via social media and xbox live.

I have minimal contact with my two kids by her via social media also. I try to let them know I’m here but not to get so involved to cause her to go off the deep end. My mom has been very civil with her and she even brings the kids to my moms house on occasion (really only on holidays that involve money, birthdays and before they go on trips get money). My mom knew she was being used but she put up with it just to see them. I asked (though the kids) to see them several times and they ask their mom and she makes excuses still.

My daughter has been to my house 3 times total. She loves it and she is actually close with me when she comes over. She always says how she misses me. My son came over a couple of times and we had a good time but I feel tension with him.

About a month ago, she called my mother, beating around the bush like she always does about money for my son to go to homecoming. Before this, we had asked to see the kids several times and she always had an excuse not to let them come. My mother finally stood up to her and told her that the only time she calls or brings the kids over is when she wants money for something. She went off on my mother and told her how I was no kind of father and that she and her husband is over 100k in debt (they take the kids on a cruise every year) and that I need to do this and that and eventually hung up on my mother.

A couple of weeks later, my cousin saw pictures on Facebook of my son at homecoming on his account. He called my mom and asked if she saw them. My mom said no and went on Facebook to see them. She was no longer able to see my son’s profile or my daughters or my baby’s mom. She took all of us off of their accounts, my only way of contacting them.

The other day my youngest was on xBox and he was talking to my oldest son. I got on and asked him how he has been and asked what happened with the facebook thing. He told me “Don’t you get it…Leave me alone”. He never acted like this before. I don’t even know if it was really him because he didn’t answer right away. Although it may have been. I started telling him the truth about everything. I figured he is old enough to know at this point. I didn’t tell him everything like how she poked holes in the condom, but I told him that I have tried to see him and that his mother always did her best to keep that from happening.

I know my daughter doesn’t feel like this. She is so sweet and actually showed me more affection than my son even though he saw more. This has been killing me and I really regret backing off now. I don’t know if I did the right thing or not. It has been keeping me up at night. I pay her child support, and everything but she gets to talk bad about me and I feel like I’m justifying it by stay in the distance. I really am thinking about making a push to have a relationship with my kids again. I’m older now and I think I an deal with it better emotionally. But did I wait too long? I let me son know even if he hates me now, I’m always here, but I think I can still save my relationship with my daughter, but I know I’m in for a hell of a ride if I start trying to enforce the visitation order. I don’t know what to do. Hearing that come from my son killed me. I can’t even sleep thinking about what he said. I don’t know what to do. That is why I’m asking for some honest opinions from here. What do you think

@ Eugene

There is so much to reply to here. I will focus on your questions about what to do and your concerns about what you son said to you.

Kids in situations like yours are in often align with their abusers against the non-abusive parent. They do this because they know if they do not support the abuser, the abuse against them will increase. Cut your son some slack, and do not take it too personally. This kid a living with an abusive monster and is likely terrified that if he shows any affection to you, she will double up on the abuse against him.

I know about this from personal experience because my ex-wife abused me much more intensively after I had any contact with my own parents. I ended up even afraid to talk with my own parents because of what she would do to me.

In Amy Baker’s book that I discussed in the article I linked to above, she mentions how alienated kids often wish the parents who are being attacked would do more to reach out to them. I think you should get a copy of that book and read it. It will help you understand much better what your kids are going through and that eventually, if they can get out from their abuser’s control, they will probably be able to re-establish a relationship with you.

Regarding the courts trying to enforce visitation orders, you should invest some time in sitting in a courtroom and watching how the courts in your area work. The best thing to do is to know what the judge you would be assigned does in his or her courtroom. Many judges reward and encourage abusers, particularly if they are women, and there is a widespread societal bias against males in anything to do with families and children. There are a few good judges out there, but they are few and far between. Many judges are thoroughly corrupt and will sell their If you are lucky enough to get one of the few, you may find that enforcing the visitation orders is possible without too much pain.

I would also suggest you start reading up on the men’s rights movement. Many of the most vocal and influential supporters of this movement are women who have seen what the courts are doing to their sons and grandchildren or to their husbands who have an ex like yours. A good place to start is the article Child Abuse From the Bench.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I’m going read the information you suggested and also try to go to a few hearings. I’ll keep you updated. Thanks again.

@ Cole Stuart
Trying living in it and see how over the top it sounds, the only time my husband gets any extra time with his child is when she wants to go cry wolf to another court/police station/ support services/ counselor/ etc. For the other side it is like living in fear of everything! I took a picture of his child with him, child told mom, mom tries to claim child porn and tried to sue me. Live it before you think its too much.

@ Cole Stuart
give 50/50 to all? end of discussion, that’s it? that’s the stupidest thing ive ever heard!!! each family is different with different issues and what not. so how would giving 50/50 to a family where the mother abuses the child daily but there’s lack of proof benefit the child? each family is different and needs to be individually assessed in order to come up with the best decision that benefits the child. the problem is the courts being overloaded with cases and the people working in the courts being too lazy and not wanting to do their jobs to determine the best decision. you must not have children. have a lovely day.

There are so many contradictions in this missive that I can’t tell what is true and what isn’t. But I will say as a successful former business owner and mother of two, that if the ex has a terrible 2 and a baby during work hours, she doesn’t have time to think, much less ‘build a business’. Moreover, unless someone has direct access to your books, they know nothing about your business, really. @ Clueless

THE GREAT POWERFUL SPELL CASTER THAT
BRING BACK MY EX BOYFRIEND.
I just want to say thank you prophet amed for all you have done for me.
He is back now. That very powerful spell to STOP THE DIVORCE – and get my ex boyfriend back.
My name is Joy Philip, from Canada. I never believed in love
spells or magic until i met this spell caster once when i went for a business summit
march this year. I meant a man who’s name is PROPHET DR AMED
he is really powerful and could help cast spells to bring back one’s gone,
lost, misbehaving lover and magic money spell or spell for a good job or
luck spell .I’m now happy & a living testimony cos the man i had wanted to
marry left me 3 weeks before our wedding and my life was upside down because
our
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Thank you for all your help prophet.

All: I invite you to review the recently filed Petition for Certiorari in the U.S. Supreme Court by Dr. Tadros against the State Bar of California and family law attorney Robert Lesh (below). The website also has many useful tips for parents in dealing with custody evaluators, mediators, and family court.

Best of luck parents–stay clear of family court. The website uptoparents.org is an excellent free resource to save headaches, money, and your and your children’s future.

God Bless.

http://croixsdadsblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/tadros-v-lesh-petition-for-certiorari/

Sorry Angiemedia–I’m posting a few times for convenience-I apologize if this is spam! 🙂

@Shannon
Just bide your time. It is very dangerous to deny the other parent visitation. Rather, allow the visitation and just watch for signs of distress.

I left a very abusive marriage, but the other parent was awarded visitation. After the divorce, it was clearly evident that my ex spouse was being abusive and even his own attorney told him to sign termination papers rather than paying the back child support.

Sociopaths can be convincing, but more times than not, they end up hanging themselves with their own rope. Their tendencies come out. Pathological lying is so natural, that they don’t realize how they contradict themselves in the same sentence.

Courts take time, and typically over a course of filing motions and answers, and on and on, the sociopath ways come out.

My ex is a psycho path, and he lost very badly, just tripping up on his own lies. He felt ENTITLED to kidnap, beat and abuse. My side of the story just came out more believable than his. He was the provider of the family, all the while being 5 years behind in childsupport and abandoning his son. stuff like that.

Court not as bad for the innocent party as you may think. Granted, if you have an idiot lawyer, it may be, but its really not. My ex was a pathological liar, and although it did waste a lot of the courts time, eventually, he hung himself because of it.

See them as stalkers. Record, tape everything. Evidence doesn’t lie. Only involve trustworthy people that won’t back of when things get heated.
Psychopaths are highly dangerous. But also people with other cluster B afflictions can damage you beyond belief. Minimum contact. When they feel all options are gone, they might become the most dangerous. Give them a false sense of compliance. They can lie and fake, so can you.
Inform yourself about the relevant legislation. Get a lawyer that’s specialized in these kind of things. Become savy. Find ways to stay calm, a tool of the psychopath and other cluster B’s is to confuse you.

@ Cole Stuart
With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. In normal divorces, a 50/50 split may be a good idea, but when dealing with a personality disordered person (sociopath, borderline, narcissist or histrionic), the arrangement requires a judge who understands how these people operate. Often, the more stable and capable parent is portrayed as the least caring parent because the child is used as a pawn to attack them. In order to protect themselves from a person so immoral they’ll manipulate their children, the non-disordered parent disconnects from the child. There’s a basic unspoken threat from disordered parents: “Give me what I want or I’ll make you hurt kid.” In these cases, the non-disordered parent will often move out their child’s life in order to stop the child from being hurt. I speak from experience.

@ Lovefraud
I agree completely. I am going through this now. My ex husband was married within two months of our divorce, and that marriage lasted two and a half years, because they had to be separated for a year. within two weeks of her moving out, he had moved himself and our two children in with a new woman, whom he was with for 5 months. Then two other women lived with him over the summer, at different times, then he met another woman and moved in with her in August. His divorce was final on June 19, 2015, from his third wife, the one after me, and he was arrested for CDV on June 22, 2015, against the girlfriend.

This man has twisted our agreement so many times it isn’t funny. Every one of these women have told me after the fact that he does absolutely nothing with them, they bathe them, wash their clothes, feed them, take them to school…two even quit their jobs to take care of the children.

IT is just over a month since he was arrested for CDV, and I had to send the children to stay with their father, per our court order, but because DSS was involved, it was supervised. I would have broken the court order to keep them with me had it not been supervised. Even with that, he brought them back a day after he was supposed to!

It’s all a big game to him. He and his mother continually belittle me in front of the children. His mother even told my oldest, “I’m scared every time that I drop you off that your mother will never let me see you again!” Then daddy tells them that he is going to buy this big house with a pool etc.

Everyone, until this happened thought that he was such a good guy! HE worked for several police departments, getting fired from 3 of the 4. He was about to be fired from his first police job when he was hired for the second police officer position because of me, since I worked there…and still do.

He has injured himself numerous times on the job, to get workers comp. Now, he injured himself and they would not agree that it was a work related injury so he gets disability. He is an evil man who will do anything to get what he wants. My son doesn’t want to see his father. I try to explain to him that it’s okay, that he isn’t a bad man, but it kills me…because he IS a bad man. I don’t want the children to ever have to see him, but I don’t want them hurt because they DO love their father. I just don’t want them to think it is okay to be that way. My oldest is already, at 10 years old playing the manipulation game that he learned from his father.

I agree with Lovefraud. Anyone who advocates 50/50 custody with a sociopath is grievously wrong, at the least. Both Rob and Cole Stuart seem to be extremely out of place with their comments…for a moment I thought I had stumbled onto one of those “father’s rights” blogs. The best solution for children with a sociopathic parent is the same as it is for anyone dealing with a sociopath. No contact.