Co-parenting With A Sociopath (Borderline, Narcissist, etc.)

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Donna Andersen

I happened across a very good posting on LoveFraud.com titled LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Tips for co-parenting with a sociopath containing advice on how to co-parent with a sociopath. Sociopaths are people who manage to portray themselves to the general public as friendly, caring, nice people but in reality they are manipulative, deceitful, and endeavor to hurt others to get what they want. Some of the common sociopaths you are likely to find in family law courts are people who are “acting out” Borderlines, Narcissists, and Antisocials. Their morality can be summed up in one sentence: If it gets me what I want or will hurt somebody I don’t like, it’s A-OK.

The author of the site, Donna Andersen, has written more about her view on how to define sociopaths:

(from Beware the sociopath: No heart, no conscience, no remorse)

Experts estimate that 1% to 4% of the population are sociopaths, depending upon whom you ask. That means there may be 3 to 12 million sociopaths in the United States, and 68 million to 272 million sociopaths worldwide. What’s worse, as adults, sociopathic men and women cannot be rehabilitated. Once a sociopath, always a sociopath.

Sociopaths have no heart, no conscience and no remorse. They don’t worry about paying bills. They think nothing of lying, cheating and stealing. In extreme cases, sociopaths can be serial rapists and serial killers.

Think you can spot a sociopath? Think again. Sociopaths often blend easily into society. They’re entertaining and fun at parties. They appear to be intelligent, charming, well-adjusted and likable. The key word is “appear.” Because for sociopaths it’s all an illusion, designed to convince you to give them what they want.

Sociopaths are masters of manipulation.

Donna Andersen focuses much of her site on stories of sociopathic men. Many of us have had very bad experiences with sociopathic women, too. A dad dealing with sociopathic mom is at a hugely magnified disadvantage versus the other way around. It’s harder for people to understand how dangerous these women are because they have trouble associating the lying, false accusations, threats, affairs, stealing, and other common sociopathic behaviors with some attractive friendly-looking woman. But such woman are sociopaths just the same.

I wish I had seen some of this advice myself earlier. Judges should be reading this, too. Many of them set up families for never-ending conflict and the children to be emotionally abused and traumatized because they fail to implement important recommendations such as these ones:

(from LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Tips for co-parenting with a sociopath)

4. REQUEST EXPLICIT COURT ORDERS! I have found through personal experience that sociopaths will exploit and take advantage of any ambiguity or vagueness in court orders to create complete and utter chaos. You must push for detailed court orders when you go to court to prevent this from happening.

5. IF POSSIBLE, ASK THE COURT TO ARRANGE CHILD EXCHANGES AT LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENTS! Doing this eliminates the opportunity of having to interact with the sociopath at your home or his/her home as well as other places that are easy for chaos to occur. Arrive at the exchange early and let the officers know that you are there for a child exchange (make sure you always have the court orders with you so that the police can see it if need be) and you can ask the desk officers if they can monitor the exchange.

6. HAVE PEOPLE OTHER THAN YOU THAT YOU TRUST AND ARE GOOD PEOPLE DO THE EXCHANGE OF YOUR CHILD(REN) IF POSSIBLE! Making yourself as invisible as possible might increase the chances of cutting the sociopath out of your life since he or she will no longer be able to see you sweat. Remember to always stay calm and collected when the sociopath tries to anger you (you can cry and vent in private) even and especially in court.

8. PUSH FOR COMMUNICATION BETWEEN YOU AND THE EX TO BE THROUGH EMAIL ONLY WHEN YOU GO TO COURT! Communication using this vehicle of communication helps to eliminate the possibility of he said/she said. Websites such as Our Family Wizard are excellent because they provide an opportunity for you to communicate with your ex via email and all the communication is safe and secure and can easily be printed out (all emails also include the date and exact time the emails were sent and viewed by the other party and also include the time any printed emails are generated). Also, the website allows you to input your parenting schedules, input medical information for the child, and offers a journal, free children’s accounts to the child(ren) involved and can also offer professional accounts for minor’s counsel and possible others to oversee the account and monitor what is going on.

9. PUSH THE COURT FOR PERMISSION TO VIDEO OR TAPE RECORD EXCHANGES AND MAKE SURE THIS IS WRITTEN IN THE COURT ORDER! Doing this helps to eliminate any possibility for potential chaos.

Further Reading

Custom Search

Counteracting Tactics for Interfering With Custody and Visitation

BPD Distortion Campaigns

Personality Disordered Abusers in Family Law Courts

Personality Disordered Abusers in Psychological Evaluations

Child Custody Tactic: Faking Separation Anxiety via Child Abuse

Relationships and Divorces with Someone Who Suffers Borderline Personality Disorder

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  1. April 2nd, 2010 at 16:01 | #1

    I’m an active reader of Angiemedia but I couldn’t disagree more with this article. We don’t want or need more government oversight. It’s incompetent, crude, and mostly dishonest. Pushing for more intervention by police only exacerbates the problem.

    What the writer of this article misses is that government intervention, and the possibility that one or the other parent can increase the pain on the other parent, is the problem–not the solution. Parents feuding who feel that they can cause pain or trauma to the other parent opens the tug of war. “There can be no peace when the only option is war.”

    The solution is not more tug of war. The solution is clear and easy rules of custody. Family Courts should be handcuffed to offer only very, very limited dispute resolution mechanisms. This removes the potential to hurt another parent by taking away the discretion of a judge to rule strongly in favor of one or the other. 50/50 custody, period. That’s it. No more ability to fight about it? Good. Move on with something more productive. End of dispute.

    Peace to all of you in custody disputes–be gentle–your child’s future is at stake, and never forget the story of King Solomon re: “splitting the baby”.

    From Wikipedia:

    The saying is based upon the Biblical passage in 1 Kings 3:16-28, where two new mothers approach Solomon, bringing with them one dead baby boy. Each mother presents the same story and accusation: She and the other woman live together and have both recently given birth to baby boys. One night, soon after the birth of their respective boys, the other woman woke to find that she had smothered her own baby in her sleep. In anguish and jealousy, she took her dead son and exchanged it with the other’s child. The following morning, the woman discovered the dead baby, and soon realized that it was not her own son, but the other woman’s.

    After some deliberation, King Solomon calls for a sword to be brought before him. He declares that there is only one fair solution: the live son must be split in two, each woman receiving half of the child. Upon hearing this terrible verdict, the boy’s true mother cries out, “Please, My Lord, give her the live child—do not kill him!” However, the liar, in her bitter jealousy, exclaims, “It shall be neither mine nor yours—divide it!” Solomon instantly gives the live baby to the real mother, realizing that the true mother’s instincts were to protect her child, while the liar revealed that she did not truly love the child.”

    It is often better to give than receive.

    Peace to all.

  2. April 2nd, 2010 at 21:42 | #2

    @Cole Stuart

    I agree with you that 50/50 custody should be the law and there should only be deviation from this with agreement of both parents or severe circumstances and solid evidence.

    Putting clear rules on the areas mentioned above can help reduce conflict. Vague rules result in sociopaths trying to twist the meanings and intent and find loopholes and grey areas to cause trouble.

    Do you disagree with all the points or just the one about doing exchanges at a police station? I can see why you’d disagree with that given the bias of police against guys, but if you’ve experienced your children’s other parent refusing to turn over the kids, turning them over late or not showing up, going in your car without your permission, making the children cry and upset by pinching them as they are handed over, and other such stunts, you really do not want to be doing exchanges without somebody monitoring them. Surveillance is also a great idea, but some judges are too ignorant to understand why other judges ordered surveillance. Apparently they can’t seem to get it through their thick skulls or into their diminutive brains that having a recorded record of an exchange makes the exchanges more likely to go smoothly because it means the really egregious problems are far less likely to happen.

    I think the best place to exchange kids is through schools as the kids get some decompression time between parent A dropping them off and parent B picking them up. Also, the staff probably know something about parents disagreeing in divorces and want to stay out of it. But that’s not an option on weekends, evenings, or for babies. Police stations are better than residences when you’re dealing with a nasty sociopath.

    Even better is somebody who is trustworthy and both parents like, but the odds are such a situation will not last as the sociopath will mess it up by a distortion campaign and other tactics. You could quickly find the “neutral” exchanger suddenly is making the exchanges more difficult because of being manipulated by the sociopath.

    Professional exchanges center are an option, too, but the costs add up. I think the chances of exchanges being peaceful goes up if both parents are required to split the exchange costs equally and the first choice option is the lowest cost one such as a school with the other ones like professional exchange centers only being used if conflict levels go up or the other less expensive but still safe methods are not available.

  3. Jan
    June 12th, 2010 at 09:41 | #3

    Respectfully Rob- You have never lived thru the trauma. My ex had supervised visits and at the request of the referee I naively agreed to my ex’s friends being supervisors so kids didn’t have to go to local abuse center for supervised visits. The ex immediately started in on campaign of portraying himself a victim of cruel malicious vindictive wife. He twisted their minds. He had his friends pretend to be CPS workers during supervised visits, he had his friends spying from other parts of the home to see how kids responded when I picked them up, told his friends I called them obscene names and they called the police on me during a pickup at ex’s house. My kids told officer I never swore but just asked the supervisor to go back into the house and let me parent my children- but who did authorities believe it was two adults against one. I could tell you other horror stories. Finally the parenting coordinator ordered exchanges at police station- specific order that ex husband and supervisor was to stay outside and I was to wait inside. On next visit the ex was waiting inside with his friend. I quietly reminded ex and supervisor that they were to reimain outside and the supervisor told me that I was a legalistic “pharisee”. Finally after two years of court battles, court ordered therapists, my requsting and then following thru with communicating with ex is via email- the truth is being understood. So- waiting at a police station for ex to drop off kids is truly in the best interest of the child when dealing with these types of situations. The police at our station have maintained a respectful neutral and it has cut down on the drama associated with each and every exchange. I wish I had pushed for this earlier in the case even though my ex had “supervisors” with him. Unless you have lived it you can’t believe it- it is hard to believe even when you are going thru it.

    Sylvia Gunther has a wonderful book for those of Christian Faith on how to deal with “Saul Personalities” (ie Saul of OT who persecuted David). It contains the best biblical description of a sociopath that I have found. It addresses how sin and wounding creates a sociopath. It also gives concrete means of getting your life back and healing: not throwing back barbs, not engaging with the abuser, healty boundaries of which the above guidelines would work for many cases, and maintainnig a non-bitter heart by praying for good for your abuser is the best way to handle. My frequent prayer now days is that God gives me the extreme wisdom in parenting our children and the peace to follow His directions. Which is how I ended up hear- looking for concrete ways to parent our two children so they can grow up as healthy as possible.

  4. June 18th, 2010 at 19:59 | #4

    @Jan

    Jan, I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had such bad experiences. This happens to both mothers and fathers as there are plentiful sociopathic parents of both genders and target parents often have no real idea why nor resources to help them until after they and their children have been badly harmed, often for many years.

    I have lived through the trauma.

    I’ve been falsely accused of domestic violence, child sexual abuse, and more.

    I’ve been through exchanges with my ex who refused to turn over the children and tried to traumatize them about being away from her.

    I’ve been through exchanges in which my ex’s friends went to significant effort both to harass me and stress out the children. Then they went to court and lied about it to a biased and incompetent judge, falsely claiming that I was the reason the exchanges were difficult and thereby causing even more damage.

    In my opinion, anybody dealing with a sociopath who is their children’s other parent needs a parental coordinator who is trained in psychology and understands that regardless of gender, there are many sociopathic malicious liars who will go so far as to abuse their children if they think they can frame the other parent for child abuse or even just agitate them.

    Merely having training in psychology ensures nothing. There are plenty of counselors and psychologists who assist in child abuse willingly and eagerly because they are too gullible or biased to be able to see their clients are malicious manipulators. They lack complete information, yet are eager to side with the sociopath to harm the children and target parent.

    A poorly trained or biased parental coordinator could make things worse, just as counselors, therapists, and psychologists who lack the training and experience with personality disorders and custody conflicts often do.

    Psychological evaluations are not particularly helpful, either. You can spend tens of thousands of dollars only to get a report that is then completely disregarded by a biased or incompetent judge and then be faced with even a worse situation than at the start.

    The skills of competent and fair psychological evaluators would be far better applied as parental coordinators. They could do a lot more good for the families involved and they would end up having a much better understanding of the destructive dynamics created by each particular sociopathic parent and how to protect the children and the target parent while still enabling the kids to have relationships with both of their parents.

    Neutral exchange sites are needed, too. But depending upon people who are present to understand what they are seeing is not adequate. There should be full surveillance of these sites with multiple camera angle video and audio recordings retained for multiple years and accessible by subpoena and to the parental coordinator. It is best if the sociopathic parent and target parent are kept far apart and the children can engage in some distracting activity on the way from one parent to the other.

    You can’t simply trust the police. Even a good cop will not be able to pay full attention all the time. A short distraction such as a call on the police radio could enable a sociopathic parent to set up an incident to frame the target parent. Worse, many police officers are readily manipulated by a sociopathic parent. You could find yourself handcuffed, arrested, roughed up, or even with a gun pointed in your face by a cop who isn’t skilled enough to understand how he or she is being manipulated by a sociopathic parent and is convinced that you, the target parent, are the bad person.

    One of the best exchange sites is the children’s school lobby that is surveilled by multiple video cameras. Kids can be “decontaminated” by a day in school before seeing their other parent, giving them plenty of time to forget to some degree the bashing and denigration that many of these kids hear from their sociopathic parent. One parent drops off before school, the other parent picks up after school. There are hours between, so there should virtually never be a legitimate need for the two parents to be present in that school lobby at the same time.

    Ideally, school staff should be trained on parental alienation, child abuse, and common problems in custody battles. There should be a counselor or psychologist who is well-versed and unprejudiced in these areas to help them stay neutral and to do what is best for the children. Sadly, this does not seem to be a common situation.

    As for religion, it is often a tool of the sociopath. As many writings on parental alienation discuss, religious groups often take the side of a sociopathic parent. Religion can become a tool used to denigrate the target parent to the children. In their zeal to “do good”, church staff and members often become enablers and participants in child abuse, yet they think they are “helping” in some way. “I’m so sorry your father abused you” or “not everybody is a sinner like your mother” might seem to them to be helpful comments, but often they are simply assisting in emotional child abuse by repeating the lies they have been told by the sociopathic parent. They become directly responsible for emotional child abuse themselves.

    It’s great that you’ve found some religiously oriented text that is helping you deal with your children’s sociopathic parent. Certainly there are some religious people who do understand the problem of parental alienation. Unfortunately, in my own experience, it is far more common for a self-proclaimed “person of faith” to fail to understand his or her own religion and to engage in child abuse, harassment, defamation, and other illegal activities because he or she is too gullible to recognize manipulation via misinformation by a sociopath. The sociopath often looks pretty or handsome, almost invariably plays the victim well, and can readily repeat all sorts of religious phrases that help suck in the do-gooder as an ally for evil deeds. In such situations, churches can become very harmful to children.

  5. Shannon
    August 22nd, 2010 at 20:27 | #5

    Please help me understand…is it beneficial for a child to have private visitation with the sociopathic parent? Are you as parents fearful for your child’s well being? What do you do when your child is a baby and can’t tell you that the other parent smacks and belittles them?

    • August 23rd, 2010 at 18:45 | #6

      Shannon,

      A complete answer to your question is going to take at least a separate article. I’ll write one and update this comment to point to it later.

      In short, there is substantial risk of denying a child time with a good and capable parent because the actual sociopathic parent has managed to deceive others, particularly the courts and “experts” who can’t be bothered to do their jobs competently and without bias, that the good parent is a sociopath.

      The courts should be using criminal evidentiary standards for deviating from 50/50 child custody except in cases in which the parents agree on their own to some other arrangement. When there are allegations of sociopathic behaviors, domestic violence, and child abuse, the courts should be putting into place mechanisms to help the family stop any such behaviors, to help protect the family members from the minor abuse that will probably continue if there really is a sociopath in the family, and to quickly detect anything beyond minor abuse so it can be brought to the attention of law enforcement or the courts as necessary.

      Today, the courts and law enforcement (this includes CPS) are failing most of the time to do the above. They instead prefer to engage in blaming and trying to select the “better parent” based upon lies, perjury, distortions, bias, and a complete lack of understanding of what is really going on inside a family. They are causing a huge amount of damage to our entire society by their actions, but particularly to the children of such families.

      Sociopaths, by their very nature, are narcissists who can control their own behaviors when they have sufficient motivation to do so. This makes them different from psychopaths who simply cannot control themselves. But instead of ensuring there is motivation for good behavior, the courts today often reward sociopathic behavior and thereby encourage continued abusive and harassing behaviors.

      If the proper safeguards are put into place around a sociopathic parent, the children and the other parent can both be safe while the children continue to derive more benefit than harm from contact with the sociopathic parent.

      Defaulting to 50/50 shared parenting and implementing support and monitoring for the whole family when there are allegations of abuse would generally be less expensive and far more effective at getting a good outcome than the current system. Today’s family law courts are litigation-intensive and readily manipulated by sociopaths. They also feature incompetent and biased judges and “experts” who maximize damage to the children and non-sociopathic parents. Even if they eventually “get it right”, it is often only after several years, even a decade or more, of compounding damages that ensure the children and a formally healthy parent are so severely damaged that they will probably never fully recover.

      Rob

  6. Clueless
    August 30th, 2010 at 03:16 | #7

    Maybe somebody here can give me some advice: This is a very, very short outline of what I got into, and does even not contain the emotional abuse I went through.

    I have 2 children (2y and 10 months old) with a NPD mother, going through divorce, and she pretty much refuses to work, but is building up her business No. XYZ. I know for a fact by now, that she treated her partners as banks (paying for further education etc) while cheating on them. Of course she is of charming, ‘lucid’ appearance, but to date she successfully prevented any discussion of issues with anybody else present (she cut me off from all my friends early on).

    I am a heavily involved father, however, I am also the only bread winner since she decided to stay at home. Pretty much everything she ever told me about herself (I know her now 3 years) from degrees or whatever happened in her past life is bluntly lied. She always refused to pay bills, and is indebted seriously (before our relationship). Within our relationship she brought us pretty much to the brink of bankruptcy by just taking money to build up her businesses which were apparently never successfully run (as the ones before we met).

    Coparenting with this woman is hell. The screaming of her towards me in front of the children subsided a bit, but still: taking out the kids for 6h straight will make her fight me in rage as taking out the kids at 65F (too cold). The kids can get scratches at her place, but when they get one at mine or the older one fell and has a scratch on his knee I get emails saying that she is not sure if the kids are safe with me. If I want to take the kids out on a warm evening (6-7.30) to the beach (they LOVE the beach and she ‘does not do the beach’) she will be furious that I am risking a heat stroke of the younger one). Etc etc.

    She is completely devoid of empathy, although she is good to the children (I believe). The financial pressure is enormous and her position to not work but being there for the children puts me even more into a bad position in regard to custody issues (she is primary caretaker, since I care enough to get rents – her and mine – paid). Way too much to explain here.

    Anyway, it is clear that she pretty much wanted a child, and after being pregnant she pretty much dumped me. Only her grandma which she respected (and who is dead now) apparently convinced her to stay with me, and eventually she got pregnant again (form having sex once, what are the odds?). But it is apparent that she wanted to have a child with somebody who can provide. I am with the kids every day, every lunch, bring them to bed every day and bath them or one of them every day. 3 nights the week they are with me, every Saturday and second Sunday. In the last 2 months I had them pretty much 5 evenings/nights the week, every Saturday and Sunday since it was convenient for her (she got a side role in a performance which allows her to brag without interruption on facebook how important she is), and in fact she called me a ‘glorified babysitter – nothing more’.

    My children mean everything to me, and the thought that they will grow up with this woman who is devoid of real feelings, ethics, empathy, who is lying, cheating, defying, etc, etc scares me to death. And I am paying already my ass off since she doesn’t want to have a job and thus is with the children during the day, while my life is no different from a widowed single dad with a job, beside of the stream of threats I am getting (she moves away, will freeze my assets, I won’t see my kids again, I’m walking on egg shells, and I think she just filed a restraining order – and that although I never harmed anybody in my life, and she hit ME lately…).

    What can I do? What are my chances? What is ‘best’ for the children, according to common sense and/or jurisdiction??

    • August 30th, 2010 at 06:25 | #8

      Clueless,

      As a toddler and a baby, your kids are too young to be able to stick up for themselves. They will not be able to explain injuries, either to defend you from false allegations or otherwise.

      You can almost be certain that your ex will emotionally abuse the children if she’s done it to you.

      Try to collect evidence of her physical abuse against you. Don’t let her know you are doing it.

      Also collect evidence of her ridiculous accusations and why they are so ridiculous. Realistically speaking, nobody is going to get heat stroke from going to the beach at 7pm in the evening unless they haven’t had anything to drink in hours and it is very, very hot outside. Simply document that you gave the kids something to drink and what the beach was like by taking some pictures of the outing and the kids drinking their milk, juice, water, etc.

      Since it looks like she is so self-centered that she will use her own activities as an excuse to not spend time with the kids, maybe you can use this to the children’s advantage. While it’s best for kids to have contact with both of their parents, you want that contact to be positive. This woman sounds like she’s troubled enough that she may be prone to turning on the kids eventually with emotional and/or physical abuse as she has used against you. Anything you can do to keep the kids out of harm’s way while not triggering elevated conflict with her is a good thing. Maybe you and others can keep suggestions heading her way on activities she can do so you’ll get to be a “glorified babysitter” as often as possible. It won’t keep her from trashing you like that, denying your role as a father, but it will keep the kids away from her abusive personality more often.

      Her lack of empathy for the children can put them at higher risk for mental health problems. Children need parents who validate their emotions, but it sounds like she is not capable of doing this. A lack of emotional validation is often stated as a reason for the development of personality disorders such as BPD and NPD. You will need to provide emotional validation for your kids above and beyond what a father in a normal two-parent family would need to do as you’ve got to make up for her invalidation.

      Making it easy for her to spend pleasant time with the kids on her terms, when convenient for her, will make it less likely she’ll abuse them extensively.

      If she did file a restraining order, be very, very careful. The government routinely uses falsely obtained restraining orders to turn innocent people into criminals, ruin their lives, and falsely portray law enforcement, prosecutors, and courts as “doing good for women and children”. Don’t violate any of the terms, but do fight it in court.

      Please read the articles on BPD distortion campaigns and personality disordered abusers in family law courts. Even if she’s acting like she has NPD rather than BPD, most or all of it will still apply. NPD and BPD are both simply flavors of sociopathic personalities.

      Also realize that if you have been emotionally abused for year as it sounds like may be the case, you have lot of healing to do yourself. The books mentioned in one of my articles on relationships and divorces with borderlines may be a lot of help for you.

      Rob

    • August 30th, 2010 at 20:15 | #9

      Clueless,

      Speaking to your concern about your ex being a financial drain, in some locales you can request a career, work, or income evaluation to determine what she should actually be able to make. The name of it varies.

      Child and spousal support are IMHO ridiculous in most cases. They merely serve to encourage at least one parent to abuse the children (blocking contact, fighting for sole custody, parental alienation, etc.) and fight over money. 50/50 custody and each parent pays for the children’s upkeep while with them should be the general rule.

      Cameron

  7. KB
    November 9th, 2010 at 18:32 | #10

    I am so glad I find this page. I thought I was the only one living through this nightmare. The messages written by Rob and Jan could very well have been written by me. The nightmare continues. And because my ex “appears” to be so charming, kind, and caring, the professionals seem to think that the difficulty my ex and I have communicating is because of ME. They have no idea what this guy turns into (werewolf) when no one but me is looking.

  8. November 16th, 2010 at 20:25 | #11

    I’m Donna Andersen, the author of Lovefraud and the woman in the photo with this article. I’d like to make one correction. Lovefraud does not focus exclusively on sociopathic men. Although, statistically, there are more sociopathic men than women, we are well aware that the pathological women are out there, and of the harm that they cause. In fact, one section of our blog is dedicated to female sociopaths.

    The family court system desperately needs education on this personality disorder. Sociopaths do not love their children. They are not capable of loving anyone. So, if they care about their children at all, it is only as a prized possession – the same as a car or a flat-screen TV. Usually they neglect their children. In the extreme cases, they actively try to mold the children into a sociopathic mini-me.

    Anyone who advocates strict 50/50 custody does not understand the damage and destruction caused by sociopathic parents, whether they are male or female.

    • November 16th, 2010 at 22:17 | #12

      Donna,

      Thanks for the comment. It’s great to hear that you’re covering sociopathic females, too. Perhaps I missed this when I first visited your site or you’ve expanded the coverage in that area.

      As I understand it, the points being made by Cole Stuart and myself about 50/50 custody are based upon experiences that both of us have had with sociopathic ex-wives. Both of us have little or no contact with our children because these women knew how to game the system to their advantage using false allegations, falsely obtained restraining orders, and other dirty tactics and were rewarded for doing so even though they were found by the courts to have lied.

      The way the current system works, the sociopath often end up with virtually 100% of the time with the children. This happens often with both sociopathic mothers and fathers. Further, statistically speaking it is clear that few fathers get sole custody yet it is also clear that there are about as many female sociopaths and abusive personality disordered parents as males. There is an element of sexism to the system that views fathers as expendable and basically only good for their money. This is undeniable when you look at the statistics and is another argument for why 50/50 shared custody should be presumed unless a high evidentiary standard is met to show it is not the best option for the children.

      Sociopaths and their allies hang together to abuse others. That is exactly what many judges are doing in family law courts. This is why their ability to deviate from 50/50 shared custody needs to be eliminated and juries should be introduced into family law cases for situations in which there is substantial evidence that something other than 50/50 custody would be warranted. The standards for deviation from 50/50 custody need to be high for multiple reasons. For one, sociopaths have the advantage in getting the other parent eliminated from the children’s lives.

      Criminal prosecutions for perjury and false police reports are also needed. Sociopaths use these tactics as a mainstay because they know they are virtually always effective and virtually never punished. Prosecuting these crimes would help deter some offenders and help provide substantive argument for victims of sociopaths whose children would benefit from something other than a 50/50 shared custody arrangement.

  9. November 30th, 2010 at 01:13 | #13

    @Lovefraud

    Hello Donna Andersen,
    Do you have an email address or a means to communicate with you directly, as I do not feel comfortable disclosing my situation in detail here. My husband and I are entangled in a SEVERE case of parential alienation dealing with 2 sociopaths, his ex-wife and her new husband in which the welfare of 4 children are at stake. The situation is complex and complicated and we have been enduring this for 3 long years and are at the point that we feel like “we are screaming and nobody is listening”. It is as if no one, not even professionals, want to believe that our situation is real and that 2 people, parents, can be as vile and manipulative as what we are dealing with. I feel like I have aged 20 years since this began and we find it nearly impossible to find anyone capable of grasping the reality of what is going on with us. We are desparate for someone experienced with this to hear us and help us for the childrens sake. Thank you for your time. It is greatly appreciated. Angela

  10. Beth
    December 9th, 2010 at 21:03 | #14

    I feel that I have no place in which to turn. I have read so many sites about coparenting with a sociopath, narcissist, jerk, etc, and every site gives me advice that sounds great in a perfect world but in reality, is unrealistic. I have read about “talking over situations with the ex” like that is magically going to solve problems. I have read about “getting restraining orders to protect oneself” but my particular court system let my ex walk all over me even when he had a restraining order against him. I live in a small town. How do I get justice? How do I get this father to follow the decree and take care of his children and their expenses? I do not have extra money to hire a lawyer. I expect and demand that he follows the decree but he won’t. There is no communication or discussion. There is no explaining my point of view. That is why we are divorced….NO COMMUNICATION, NO DISCUSSION. Help. I am fearful for my safety. I sleep with a bat under my bed. I lock not only the wooden door but the screen door. My ex is the classic bipolar, narcissist, sociopath.

    • December 13th, 2010 at 23:06 | #15

      Talking with a sociopath does nothing useful. They find ways to twist what you said to misportray you into the aggressor, identify weaknesses to attack you, and collect more information they can use against you.

      Can you move? That might help provide some peace of mind.

      I felt somewhat more secure in my home after moving, but now my ex-wife is demanding that she know my address “in case she needs to pick up the children in an emergency.”

      Even the kids can see that is nothing but bullshit. She already has my phone number and email address to contact me if there is some concern. And there has never been any ‘emergency’ other than her desire to send people to harass me, be it lying to the cops to get them to hold me at gunpoint and handcuff me because of her false accusations or her evil friends who help her harass me at child custody exchanges.

      You can’t count on courts to help actual victims. The courts ruled that all of the very serious false allegations coming from my ex-wife were false and malicious, but they still will not do anything to stop her abuses. Instead, they actually encourage her to continue them by consistently failing to punish and hold her accountable her for her obvious crimes that have been hugely damaging to my family, our children, and me.

  11. Renee’
    January 19th, 2011 at 15:59 | #16

    If I were you I would move. I would also go to the nearest Social Services building and speak with Child Warefare Dept. or which ever Dept that handles safety of the children. They will refer you to a Social Worker that will open a case for the children and as there Custodial parent they should be able to give you a list of resources and organizations that may be able to give you support and protection for you and the kids.

    @Beth

  12. emile
    January 30th, 2011 at 10:52 | #17

    Rob I know your pain. I went through the same war but came out with full custody of my twin boys. War started when they were two got custody when they were five they are fifteen now. I could swap my ex for yours and you have the same woman. I was falsely accused, arrested, dragged through family court aka kangeroo court. My ex hospitalized one of my sons when he was five. She convinced the court I commited domestic violence and my son witnessed it causing him to act out. The child never showed any signs of emotional problems. He missed his dad that’s all. She alienated my children from me. Eventually with the help of a good lawyer I prevailed but it took awhile and my kids suffered. Hang in there the truth always prevails in the end.

  13. Nathaniel Small
    March 1st, 2011 at 19:08 | #18

    I myself was in an 8 year relationship with a narcissistic sociopathic woman. It never dawned on me that there could have been other women out there. After her third affair I had had enough. Unfortunately our two children now 10 and 7 are paying the price along with my new family. We have been in and out of court many times over the last three years including fighting criminal charges she was succesful in filing, which were nulle processe due to her lies. The courts do not want to hear that 50/50 custody doesn’t work and that it is both parties responsibility to make it work for the children. At this point I truly believe it can’t always work. I am not perfect by any means but me and my girlfriend have done everything humanly possible to foster a healty and loving relationship. This is the last chance for me to try and prove to the court that her involvement is unhealthy for our children and visitation needs to be supervised at a minimum. I am physically, mentally and emotionally drained by events of the last three years and don’t want to feed my children to the wolves by giving up but I don’t think I can go on much longer. There is so much more to my story that most wouldn’t even believe but I will end it here. This has got to come to an end.

  14. michelle
    March 17th, 2011 at 13:41 | #19

    @ Shannon
    Im trying to figure this out myself. There is nothing worse than having a true sociopath in your life through this recovery, I too have to deal with permitting visitation, when I really worry about what he puts in my child’s head while with him. If he can screw with an adult mind on that level how much easer is it to mess with a young child’s mind. They are so vulnerable. currently the laws to protect women from these cases pretty much don’t exist unless you make it your life. Sociopaths use their children as tools and to help them feel like normal people. document, document, document. best thing in this case.

  15. Anonymous
    June 5th, 2011 at 00:29 | #20
  16. June 9th, 2011 at 21:49 | #21

    Rob, I couldn`t agree more 50/50 should be offered straight up! From experience I know my abuser would not step up to the plate (for long anyway). I believe if 50/50 negotiated through court were the given, these irresponsible people would want minimal contact and if it looks like you are not fighting they dont want to win. Me being married to this person knew he could not handle the children for long and they got in the way of his personal life. He only wanted to fight because he looked bad,(in his own distortion campaign) once he won the minimal contact he wanted,( and we only went to court after a 5 months absence on his behalf and because I got RUMOUR by phone of him and his new girlfriend being back in town from the other side of the country, taking the children and not bringing them back then going to court to make out I was a bad parent..The rumour became believable when I hung up the phone and instantly his girlfriend appeared at my front door and asked if they could take the children to see their grandmother whom was in hospital and they had no idea if she would come out( emphasema, she lasted 13 years more) Ofcourse I said put it in writing but no written request came so I took the kids to see grandma) he bailed (it took him 2.5 months to run back to the other side of the country, no loss to me and the children had peace) and he has only been part of his childrens lives when I have happened by him by chance and offered time ( I always wanted the kids to know him even if it was to learn what not to do). The bottom line here is I believe we as parents have children together, that is a life time for us and any children involved. If, when people divorce in conflict child matters go straight to court and offer 50/50 negotiated down to what the abuser really wants. Mediation does not work because the abuser really only wants to come out of this all justified and looking like some sort of super hero with POWER. Divorce , conflict, agreed, straight to court third party helps negotiate it down or what ever, set in stone.
    As the mother of these children I found that their father if I did not try to prove my self to him and he believed he was getting his own way he left us alone and I picked up the pieces let the children know thier fathers strengths (being what attracted me and was attractive for them to know) so they could always see the best in them selves and let them make thier own decisions from any time they did get with him. They are young adults and have seen trauma and it has left its mark but they are strong and moral and doing really well for them selves. I am proud to have come out the otherside with such beautiful people 22yrs 17yrs 15yrs old and I thank thier father for showing me and them a hard drama filled life for 6 years living together and probaly 2 years maximum he has spent with them in the 13yrs apart so that when we actually got peace we appreciated it wholly and we can identify abusers almost immediately (awesome).. We can not protect our children from everything, they need to experience life and who they are. I know every case is different but if 50/50 really is the reliable starting point, maybe it could be stated in hospital at the birth of a child “you do realise these children are a 50/50 with the paternal parents? You are responsible for what you can do to the best of your ability and dito for the other person” Or maybe anti natal classes should incorperate some of this idealism to pre birthing parents?? I don`t know, we are all so different. Ah Utopia would be good!

  17. aj
    June 22nd, 2011 at 13:47 | #22

    I have read a lot of these comments briefly and in my case what is mentioned about 50/50 custody (especially the child support issue) is incorrect. I have has 50/50 with a BPD/NPD mother. She has done all the usual tricks and manipulations that have been mentioned. We were never married, but I “invited” her to stay with me late in her pregnancy (she presented herself as homeless even though I know she could have lived with her mother or grandparents) while she was supposedly saving for an apartment. Of course that never happened. Our daughter was born and I couldn’t imagine how this person was going to take care of our child on her own. I offered marriage and she said yes. She soon had talked me into buying an engagement ring (using my school loan money) and then she systematically started her campaign against me. Her mood swings increased with vigor, she brought things home from stores (she had no money or job) so it was most likely shop lifted, she started cutting herself when she wasn’t getting her way. She seemed to never want me to be away and called me at my job and school along with constant belittlement for not making more money and putting her and our child first. (That’s exactly what I was trying to do by marrying her.) I quickly found out with the help of what friends she hadn’t scared away and my family that there was no helping or changing her. I was never going to be good enough or do enough. Damned if I do – damned if I don’t situation. I moved out when our daughter was 3 1/2 months . She quickly put an order of protection on me. This insured her “my apartment” that I continued to pay for and all my possessions. To top it off I had to pay back child support for those 3 1/2 months since we were not married and “everything” I had done and bought was considered a gift. That is how you are right on about how the system favors the sociopath. They didn’t give a hoot about me or my needs and still don’t. I have 50/50 and pay support as if she has primary. She doesn’t work most likely never will. She is too busy running to ER for newest ache and pain and getting pregnant. By my calculations she is now pregnant for the 6th time and she’s only 24 years old. She only given birth 2 or 3 times though. I believe her first was taken away from her, although she said she miscarried. The others most likely weren’t going to “pay off” like she had hoped so she aborted them. She’s playing the family card- something the BPD knows all to well that the courts love to accommodate the “family that’s trying” and especially the “single mother.” I regret that I settled for 50/50 and let my then lawyer scare me away from doing the right thing for my daughter. Limiting as much time from a sociopath parent is “in the best interest” of any child.

  18. Rose
    July 1st, 2011 at 00:47 | #23

    @Rob

    Donna, my ex has exerted his legal right to 50/50 care but just loves farming our 3yr old son out to others, especially his partner, rather than spend much time with him. I consider this a form of neglect. They share 5 children between them. Recently my boy came home saying his stepmum hit him in the face..plus there’s been bruising on his arm. Of course this is all a ‘fabrication’ he has decided (because it’s inconvenient for him to deal with) . Social services are investigating, and I’m crossing my fingers. He’s a Detective and his girlfreind is a lawyer so can you imagine how they are going to try and act like model citizens

  19. Mim Rose
    August 29th, 2011 at 00:46 | #24

    With all due respect when a mom and her children are battered is it a great idea to force them into a parenting agreement in which she has to get permission from her batterer in order to proceed with any parenting decision? 50/50 doesn’t work. In the days when judges gave children to moms the crime rate was down, now children are bounced between households like ping-pong balls instead of being treated like human beings, it affects their psychological and spiritual health, and they grow up to be criminals. Adults would have trouble coping with jumping between two households every few days. How are children supposed to survive this even if the father ISN’T abusive?

  20. Jonathan
    September 3rd, 2011 at 23:25 | #25

    @ Cole Stuart
    Could not DISAGREE more. As a survivor of co-parenting with a borderline ex, and witnessing disputes with my current wife and her sociopath ex, I have seen enough. I did the 50/50 and it made it worse. The battle then becomes sadistic. She took the kids to doctors they didn’t need… scheduled elective surgeries, put them on sedatives they didn’t need… took pictures of bruises that SHE put on them… called DCS accusing me of being a molester… claimed I burglarized her home… I’m just getting warmed up. She put 2 kids in the hospital, wrecked them emotionally, and between the lost income, destroyed property, and legal bills… cost me well over $100k. That’s just one of them. The other is a violent stalker who has keyed my wife’s car in the COURTHOUSE parking lot, come at me with his car at the same location, and has started fights at school and is now bullying my 12 year old daughter. He has taken the child twice and left the state. They do things that are too ridiculous to believe really happen… and they get away with it. By the time it catches up to them, it’s too late for the kids. Mine were lucky, after a year and a half ordeal in Juvenile court, my kids are with me solely. She can see them with the babysitter with the clipboard taking notes. The kids feel safe, for a change, and have made a complete 180. They are active, and make the honor roll, and get awards out the yazoo. It is IMPOSSIBLE to co-parent with these people, it is IMPOSSIBLE to parallel parent with them. The ONLY solution is to cut them off or at most allow them professional supervision. Even at that… that orange juice might really be Red Bull… or they might drop lice in the kids hair… or that chocolate cake might be full of laxatives… I wouldn’t ever think of this stuff… but a Borderline will.

    50/50 can work with reasonable people. I think that psych evals should be almost compulsory at the beginning of any co-parenting arrangement with a 1 yr follow up. That may sound like an expensive mandate, but 300-500 up front is a hell of a lot lower than any legal retainer, and the results from those can nip a lot in the bud. These disorders get passed down to the kids through exposure… eliminate the exposure, and the illness will be much less prevalent in the next generation. It’s unfortunate that there is no other solution. If my ex were to ever get any real custody back, I think I would have to leave the country to get away from it. I will not go through that again.

  21. Jonathan
    September 4th, 2011 at 01:21 | #26

    I’ll add a bit more…. I live in a very backwards place…. Tennessee. Nuff said. I won the unthinkable case with my three daughters. I faced every accusation in the book. Woman judge. Woman guardian ad litem. Woman CASA. Therapists (plural), case managers(plural), and teachers…. all of the breasted variety. Throw in the allegations of sexual abuse with an ex mother in law who is the director of the child abuse canter… can we stack the deck any more? I beat the nutbar. There is only one way to do that. Find a shrink that is used to testifying. Ask them if they are afraid of sociopaths… at this point they will either kick you out, or show you their Taser. You should have a long history of voicemails, text messages, or emails that show their true colors. Stick to what you can PROVE… then add what you can’t. DO NOT EXAGGERATE. They will catch it and call you the nut. Any mental health professional will know that you cannot fix these people, and any effort will just make it worse. Get the kids to them… let them find out from the kids how they are being affected. If the kids are showing signs of harm, in any way, and the other parent has or is suspected of this diagnosis, a judge is much more likely to do something. An order for them to be evaluated is a start. They either will not do it, or they will flunk it. It is CRITICAL that you also meet with the person evaluating or they will be fooled. Then you get visitation cut to supervised only in a place that actually pays attention, and any phone contact is to be supervised with you retaining the right to monitor, record, and terminate a call as needed. I actually got away with stating on the stand…” while she’s showing you her best side… she’s showing me her back side.” I had the ammo to back that up. While she sobbed that I wouldn’t let her talk to the kids and would hang up for no reason… I had volumes of evidence to the contrary… she was asking them to tell the judge they wanted to go live with her, she was offering love and affection for compliance… on and on. Guilt trips…. garbage. Today the girls can have a nice, peaceful visit for a couple of hours a week… with someone watching. That’s as good as it gets. I’m still afraid of police cars. I’m still afraid of opening the mailbox. I still fear what she might do next. You can’t ever make that go away entirely. All the threats she made about taking the kids from me and what she would do… she followed through on all but one. I will live in fear of that one that has yet to be acted upon until one of us is in the ground.

  22. September 5th, 2011 at 03:00 | #27

    @Jan I just realized my soon to be X husband is a Narcissitic Sociopath, He fits both in the sense he does need validation from others to feel alive and constaly talks about HIMSELF. I mean he wont see his kid for a month & when he does all he talkes about is HIMSELF and how great he is doing. Our son is 3, This man Decived me BAD, said he was a Christian man and had changed his life (he goes thru these Reilougous spells quite frequently) VERY soon into our marriage we had issues. Cheating with 15yr olds, possibly pregnancies, he cudnt hold a job, BAD anger problem, no remorse for anyones feelings at all, always had an excuse for why he did things, cant utter the words “I was wrong or I need to change” he is 36 and homless living off the means of the church..I have Full Custody and he gets SUPERVISED vists every 2 weeks for 24 hrs. No matter what,,,, There can be no peace when the only option is war.” I have ALWAYS been the targert of his narcissim and he has told his family im Bi-polar, told the church I cheated on him, bashed out the windows of an X BF of mines IN THE CHURCH parking lot, has threatned every employer he ever worked for, casually says “I am goin to burn her car up” Split somones head open over $3…NOW i have to co-parent with this Naricssitic Socipath! He has ben good to my son though, again he is only 3 though and he isnt aruond him too much. Our final courtdate is in OCT and id like to get him mentally evaulated…If I can keep him out of our lives we can have peace..My eyes are finally opened to why he is the way he is…He viewed Rape type porn (found it on my PC) and has a serios issue with Porn, anger, cant hold a job, and he doesnt want me , cus i FOUND HIM OUT… I know the REAL him and am NOT an assest to him. He has stated how he is “every girls knight in shining armour” lol. Very polite to others and respectful, I fear people wont belive me, and Ill tick the N off..He has theatned my life, said His child want his no more, left the state and didnt speak to our son for over 6months, All I wanted was peace and cud never understand why he did the things he did or said the things he said,,I didnt belive he cud really mean it?? Normal people dont think to bash out windows, or kill people over telling them they need to pick up the pace at work! As I reflect he has hurt my son in the sense of his inconsitant lifestyle and leaving for extended periods of time, I have NO DOUBT that if he was to find a “resource” in another country he wud be on the next flight and not think twice about how it wud affect his son, who actaully loves his father very much..I alwatys thought keepin him invovled with my son was the best thing for my son and I never wanted to be the one that caused him to NOT have a father ( Ialready have one son who’s father isnt arond due to drugs and alchol) When I hear him talk about God it makes me ill, And im a beliver, its like he says all these things to make himself look Goood and he wants me to say “Boy u sure are doing Good” He doesnt provide for his son at all, nor does he call jsut to ask how he is doing. THis man will talk NON STOP about HIMSELF for hours if u let him and considers it disrespectful if u have to fold laundry while he is speakin ! What alarmed me the most the other day during one of his rambles he said “since i have been young ive thougt of 2 tings, MURDER AND RAPE and now Im delivered, God set me free” The hairs on the back of my neck stood up! Why wud he say this?? I hope its tru but he has been doing this religous stuff for along time and is how he got me to marry him and now finally admits he married me to have sex with me….(im against pre-martial sex) his victims/women are always ones in crisis, when he met me I had a broken back and foot and he came to my aid and was aroudn NON STOP treated me like GOLD. It wasnt until we married shorly after his how demanor changed…what can I do to be an effective co-parent?? CAn I RUN? I need to make a decison b4 October and tell my lawyer about this stuff and get any visitaiton taken away, cus im afraid of what the furutre may hold for my son and my children. I belive if i was to move on with another man, he wud take it really hard and I dont know how is Narcissim will affect our son when he is older….I dont know what to expect as my son grows and matures what kinda inflence he will be on him…HE told my son who was 2.5 to take a bat to a kid who bite him at daycare (said he was joking) but kids take that Literally he even handed him the bat…Any suggestions, on what I can petition the courts for and if I shoud bring this up to my lawyer, I dont wana piss the N off too much, but I have to protect my son and myself……

  23. Lashanda
    October 7th, 2011 at 15:33 | #28

    I think each situation varies. I am dealing with a sociopath male. He is the biological father of my four year old son. The drama has been over the top ever since I left him. He is very manipulative, dishonest, and very bitter. He has been trying to bring me down. He is ordered to pay child support which he doe not pay regulary. He has sturdy relationships with different women who dont mind him being unemployed. He has manipulated teachers, cps workers, etc. I am thinking about suing him for malicious prosecution because he calls cps workers on me about every year. He makes false accusations that result in each case being closed. He is evil. We were recently ordered by the judge to meet at local police departments which is a good idea. I put off going to school and getting education because of the drama. But now I am back in school and pursuing a degree and planning on moving soon. Dont live in the same city with them. The visitations will have to be more frequent. They usually dont work so they will have financial difficulties.

    • October 7th, 2011 at 21:13 | #29

      Lashanda,

      Regarding your comment that sociopaths don’t usually work so they will have financial difficulties, that certainly isn’t a litmus test for a sociopath.

      Many victims of sociopaths are so embattled and harmed that they lose their jobs and health from the torture. Sometimes the sociopaths recruit others to go after them in their workplaces. So the victims end up unemployed and in very dire financial straits, especially if they are also being forced due to false allegations and the broken family courts to spend their minuscule incomes and dwinding savings to even have a chance to see their kids.

      Sometimes the sociopaths are employed in very lucrative jobs, such as lawyers, doctors, and even as judges. They can do even more damage to their victims because they are wealthy and people naively believe that those in such professions are somehow more reliable or trustworthy than their victims. For instance, I’ve heard of a case in which an apparently sociopathic doctor falsely accused the other parent of poisoning the children and it resulted in instant removal of the children from the victim parent because the doctor supposedly can be trusted. The doctor is wrongly assumed credible and the target parent assumed to be dangerous. And although there is undeniably a huge amount of sexism in the family courts and “child welfare” systems, this case involved a MALE doctor sociopath versus mother. That the toxicology screens came back negative was disregarded, too. And the doctor repeated the same false accusations over and over again for years, keeping the kids away from their mother with lies. In family law courts, false accusations are routinely assumed to be true and when they are eventually proven false, nothing is done to punish the malicious liar or to compensate the victim for damage even if the sociopath is wealthy and the victim is nearly destitute from the abuse.

      Your idea of suing for malicious prosecution in a civil court has some merit. Also look into suits based upon emotional distress, especially if you can document how your career or health were derailed by the trauma caused to you by the sociopath.

      Don’t waste your time on child support. I’m not saying that parents should not support their children. What I mean is that the child support system is totally broken and should be shut down. In many states they spend $3 or more dollars in taxpayer funds for every $1 of child support they collect. It is funded by wasteful spending by the Federal government via Title IV legislation that functions to support wasteful and abusive local bureaucrats.

      The abusive child support system is funded at the expense of everybody but most particularly the children and parents whose relationships are severed by this system. Many of the people who are ordered to pay child support cannot afford it. The courts drag their feet on support modifications for months or years when a person loses employment in this rotten economy. Many of these people end up destitute or dependent upon family and friends to stay alive and are forced to stop seeing their kids and disappear into the underground economy where they work much like illegal immigrants do. Nothing against immigrants, mind you — just pointing out that under the table tax-avoiding low-wage employment is common for both them and the victims of the child support system.

      Child support in many cases is child abuse when it is ordered wrongly and in excess of any legitimate need. The child support system exists because local government bureaucrats like to keep the money flowing from the Federal government. The local courts help them do it by making ridiculous support orders that have no basis in fact or law and their victims lack the funds and knowledge to fight them. Even if they have the funds and knowledge, the courts are biased towards minimizing one parent’s contact to maximize child support orders because the judges all know their counties and states are getting paid for doing this and it is part of what indirectly helps pay their own salaries. Usually the men are the targets of this system, but sometimes the women become the targets when the men are somehow connected with the government such as by working as police officers or social workers or in the courts.

      Child support should be based upon actual expenses, not fictionalized numbers, and there should be ZERO payment to local and state governments by the Federal government for anything to do with child support. Without these changes, the system will continue to abuse parents and children alike.

      If there was really an interest in providing for children, it would be cheaper to pay child assistance payments to needy families than to continue the current child support system. Government payrolls could be slashed in the areas of the courts and social services. They know that so they will continue to make abusive child support orders because it is in their financial interests to do so and to fool people into thinking this is somehow doing more good than harm.

      Getting people to support their children is relatively easy when you actually let the people see their children on a regular and frequent basis. Virtually all parents who get to have their kids live with them part of the time are going to feed, clothe, and shelter them in proportion to how much time the kids spend with them. The few that don’t are either so poor that they probably should be getting welfare payments they are not or are sociopaths who don’t care about their kids.

      In your case, your sociopathic ex sounds like a nightmare and should be prosecuted by the government for filing false reports. But government does not typically do this. They claim it is “too expensive” to prosecute these people. There is a perverse economic incentive to encourage false child abuse reports by not prosecuting anybody for making them. Every false child abuse report is lucrative for the local governments because they also get handouts from Federal and state governments for “providing services” to children who are not being abused so long as somebody lies and says they are being abused.

      False child abuse reports may be even more lucrative than real ones because they get money for “providing services” when usually all they do is some slow and incompetent investigation and ban the falsely accused parent from seeing the children or require expensive supervised visitation. That can drag on for months or years. For that they earn payments for their employers from higher governments.

      Child abuse is profitable, and false child abuse reports are even more profitable. So that in my view is a big share of the reason why people like your sociopathic ex are not prosecuted. Local and county governments like sociopaths like him as sociopaths help CPS social workers “earn” their salaries and maintain job security. You as a good parent do neither. So in the eyes of the local governments who are in charge of enforcing these laws, a sociopath is better than a good parent.

      Rob

  24. lashanda
    October 18th, 2011 at 11:55 | #30

    Sociopath aka “The Devil” is always looking for ways to manipulate, lie, and get his way. I have been going through this hell for 4 and a half years. First he wanted a paternity test to prove my son was really his. I believe that was done to humiliate me and make me look like a loose women. Then when I filed child support he got really upset and tried to push for more time with my son. I get my son majority of the time but he gets substantial visits. We have been in and out of court in Raleigh, North Carolina. I have took on jobs to support my son because like I said he wont pay any child support. I dont depend on child support bc I work and keep jobs. Hes on child support bc I considered it a punishment for the hell he took me through. It eventually comes to a point about every year where if he doesnt pay something, they will arrest him. He doesnt work at all. I know he lives to manipulate different women who work, have a place, and transportation. I even worked as a Detention Officer bc I wanted the courts to favor me. It worked, they looked at me as being more stable and gave me some of what I wanted. I guess I dont want to have any contact with him at all. He is very dangerous, especially when he gets upset. Not to long ago he attacked my fiance. We went to court. He got a slap on the hand. They held him in civil comtempt. But he lied and said my fiance started with him. He coned a fake witness to come to court. He is crazy. But Im gonna move away from this area. Staying in the same city with this animal makes things more uncomfortable. I would probally puke if I run into him at the movies, grocery store, restaurant, etc. As for my son, I take him to counseling regulary just in case he tries to make any more false accusations. One day I may have to use his therapist in court.

  25. lashanda
    October 19th, 2011 at 11:03 | #31

    Does anyone have any other advice dealing with sociopath males. It seems that everyone on this site is dealing with sociopaths. Maybe we can share ideas and information on how we can live more peaceful lives.

  26. mominohio
    October 29th, 2011 at 14:16 | #32

    Dealing with a narcissist co-parent is the most challenging event the other parent and children can go thru while the other parent is on a war path. I fully support 50/50 parenting, however not when the parents have to go thru the courts system. For two good parents, they don’t need a GAL or judge! Yes, the courts need to be better educated on mental disorders and how to determine and treat it. My question is this: How do you “learn” to communicate with the other parent to benefit everyone???? I have tried kindness, praise words (which he took as a sign to ask more and more), I tried little verbal communication (to which he got upset I was hiding something from him), I have stop all “emotional “words in any form of communication which was helping a little bit (meaning not responding to the drama) so now he has turn towards our daughters (4 and 6) in a form of parent alienation for his NPD supply. Nothing is working….. I am drained!

    Brief back ground: The courts think because of my lack of emotional outburst and straight forwardness, I am cold hearted adulteress like he told them without any shred of proof, so I am stuck with a 65% – 35% co-parenting with mutual agreement on all decision making even though he hadn’t see his daughters for 1 ½ years. Yes, he was deployed for 9 months, however when we got married he wasn’t in USMC (retired), and came home one day saying he signed back up and was leaving in 6 months because he “had to get away from family life” , during that time he lost his command overseas due to drinking and fighting and trying to get his gay Lt Col removed . After all that he was reassigned to FL on a good post and never once came back to visit his daughters until he got released for drinking and fighting again. He refused to show his fit-rep to courts or his discharged papers and they felt the need to give him a second chance without asking for anything. Our daughters are torn, on “Daddy’s happy days, they love going, on Daddy’s bad mood days, they refuse to go and he blames me of course……..Since that…..

    I have tried to work within the agreement only for him to always trying to changing the schedule, disagree with me on every need for the girls including a trip to ER room, hurt me verbally and thru others by stalking me………

    What I need help on how to “deal” (communication) with him without him going into all the drama, debate and temper tantrums. Suggestions other than going back thru the broken court system?

  27. rhonda
    December 1st, 2011 at 06:16 | #33

    Wow Cole! Obviously you have never been involved with a sociopath. Thank God for that. For those of us who have, we need all the governmental interference we can get. A sociopath will take any opportunity to skew the facts in order to make the other parent seem unfit, insane, even abusive. I have struggled for a long time to regain my reputation as an honorable human and a caring attentive mother after my X, successfully attempted to assassinate my character. It took a while, but now the small town in which I live can see how he manipulated anyone who would lend an ear. Again, THANK GOD you don’t know anything about this

    • December 1st, 2011 at 20:41 | #34

      Rhonda,

      Actually, Cole has a lot of experience with sociopaths. He’s been arrested and put in jail due to their manipulations. Last we heard, he hasn’t seen or talked with his son in something like two years. You can read about the politically motivated retaliation against Cole Stuart and the California Coalition for Families and Children executed by the corrupt government and courts of San Diego.

      The family law courts in San Diego and throughout much of the United States frequently help and reward sociopaths. While nobody can be sure exactly why each individual judge is doing this as they will probably never admit what they are doing or why, it appears that typically there are several reasons. One is they are for the most part totally lacking in training in psychology. They refuse to follow the law and Constitution and believe that they are the law in their courtrooms. They do not punish perjury or contempt of court in most cases. Instead they reward the violators with increased custody, often banning the falsely accused parent from content with the children or putting them into very expensive supervised visitation. Then when it is showed the sociopath lied, which of course you have to do because these judges believe that you are guilty until proven innocent, the courts then use the curtailment of parent/child time as a reason to continue the same even though the reason for the curtailment was malicious lies, perjury, false reports to police and CPS, etc.

      Many believe that money is behind the behaviors of these courts. When a judge gives primary custody of children to a sociopath, she generates endless lucrative court battles that will go on probably until the children become adults. The judges benefit because they can argue that more judges and more staff are needed. Their friends in the legal community benefit because they can bill for many times the billable hours than if sociopaths were dealt with by imprisoning them for their perjury and malicious behaviors. Local government benefits because they can get money from the Federal government for every child and parent they help abuse while investigating and rewarding false child abuse complaints. Everybody in the government wins from their criminal behavior. Even when they are caught red-handed, they are given immunity because in the US most of the government fundamentally believes that the citizens have no rights and the government can do whatever it damn well pleases including destroying families by rewarding proven false allegations, putting children into custody of child abusers, and engaging in false arrests and suppression of freedom of speech opposing their behaviors.

      These problems as probably the most pervasive in family law courts, but the general corruption and abusive behaviors of the judiciary and government is spreading like wildfire into all areas. So now you have increasing numbers of Americans protesting against the little pieces they see as problems for themselves. Jesse Ventura, former governor of Minnesota, refers to the US as the Fascist States of America for its treatment of him in airports and refusal to allow federal lawsuits against the TSA for its pattern of violations of civil rights. The Occupy Movement protesters focus on the Wall Street and big corporation corruption of the government. The family law reform movement focuses on the epidemic of abuse against children and parents by the government and courts. The healthcare rights movement focuses on the suppression of free speech regarding scientific research on low-cost nutrition and supplements and armed raids by the para-military troops of the FDA on companies such as organic farmers and natural supplement makers that dared to publish accurate scientific research showing the benefits of their products. By doing so, these “enemies of the FDA” oppose the FDA’s collusion with big pharma to shove dangerous expensive drugs down people’s throats and have taxpayers, patients, and insurance companies pay for them when better, safer, and cheaper alternatives are available. That’s a threat to the coercive extortion campaign of the FDA, so of course they are going to make legal threats to shut these companies up and send in machine-gun-toting troops if the threats don’t work. And you can’t expect the courts to protect anybody because even when the courts do the right thing and cite the FDA’s violation of the Constitution, the courts don’t have the guns and weapons to put a stop to the criminal activity and the politicians who could stop it won’t do it because they get campaign contributions from the beneficiaries of this abuse, namely big pharma and other big corporations who rake in big profits selling expensive government-certified toxins to their ignorant captive customers.

      Most people see just their little piece of the nightmare and fail to realize that it is part of an overall pattern. The nightmare of civil rights violations, abuse, extortion, and corruption is everywhere in the United States. The United States of America as the “land of the free” for all intents and purposes ceased to exist some decades ago as the Constitution is almost universally disregarded by politicians and the courts. They with few exceptions are out to make money by ripping people off and treating them as slaves who have no rights. By doing so, they get big campaign donations and dupe millions of voters into voting for them due to the “we’re the government and we’re here to help you” programs that appear to provide benefits. But in fact those programs generally cause extensive damage to people’s lives in what appears to be a pattern of abusing people and taking away their freedoms to make them subservient to the government and subject to control and coercive extortion of the politicians and their friends who are running the country for their own profit in violation of the Constitution.

      Chris

  28. rhonda
    December 1st, 2011 at 06:36 | #35

    Ok, I did a little more reading, and Cole and others who believe in 50/50 custody, if you had primary custody of your children from a sociopath/NPD parent, would you still believe in 50/50 custody across the board?

  29. One of Thousands
    December 3rd, 2011 at 18:31 | #36

    Rhonda — You make a good point. In many cases relationships fall apart because one or both of the people in the relationship are manipulative, dishonest, or just plain cruel. The original author estimated at 1%-4% of the population are “sociopaths” — i.e., people who don’t care about how their selfish behavior affects others. Frankly, based on my personal experience as a lawyer and the headlines I see everyday, I think this percentage estimate is desperately low.

    If I may, Rhonda, suggest that you may have missed a very important point of this article, and the other extremely well researched and balanced articles at Angiemedia. In my opinion, the article points out that divorce courts throughout the nation create a forum for “sociopaths” (again–liars and cruel people) to do even more damage to their ex-spouse, children, extended family, and ultimately themselves. By pitting parent vs. parent in a contest of “who’s better” and “upping the bet” with custody and support awards, courts create incentives to lie and abuse. Sociopaths (liars and abusers) take full advantage of this easy tool to continue their theft, lieing, and abuse. I can assure you that was the case in my disso — my ex-wife was >advised by her attorneyspawnsextremely< important issues.

    Blessings and love to all.

  30. One of Thousands
    December 3rd, 2011 at 21:37 | #37

    I’m sorry Rhonda — my message got cut off at near the end. I wrote to address your very good question but apparently there are character limits. Allow me to be briefer:

    What I am suggesting is that parental fitness has little to do with what the parents accuse each other of. Parents can and very often do argue. Modern life. Go figure.

    The problem the article addresses — very well — is that courts, psychologists, supervisors, etc. are simply band-aids on what the real problem is: parental conflict. And in fact, courts, psycholgists, etc. have proven to be not only ineffective at resolving that conflict (while it could be resolved by guiding toward free resources such as uptoparents.com), but they actually encouraging it. In other words, courts etc. actually >create< the very object that they are responsible for minimizing.

    As a practicing attorney for 16 years, former prosecutor for the US government, and Dad, this is nothing short of criminal behavior by our own government.

    Certainly rhonda there are cases where equally sharred custody is a problem. But the real question is "why"? Is it because one or the other of the parents are at each other's throat, or because the adversarial court system encourages, and even rewards, dishonest, psychopathological behavior? After nearly two decades of practicing law in California courts, and far too many years of being drug through divorce court >by< a psychopath, I suggest that it is the court system itself — including its army of “psychologists” etc., that is the problem.

    Solution: 50/50 no matter (almost) what. Is it the best solution? No. Ideally, we'd have far, far better public servants who actually did their job. We don't. We have in fact extremely weak public servants, psychologists, and truly wicked divorce lawyers. Very, very sad state of affairs that victimizes children and parents alike to the enrichment of divorce attorneys, psychologists, and many, many others. It's a disgrace, and contributing to the downfall of our communities, city, state, and great nation.

    See "Face Up To Fred" and other articles here for more.

    God bless us all.

  31. One of Thousands
    December 4th, 2011 at 05:16 | #38

    @mominohio:

    I’m so glad good moms like you exist! Obviously Ohio has a better court/attorney system than we do here in California. You asked for resources to avoid going to court with what seems to be a controlling parent—perhaps and alcoholic. Here are a few ideas that might help.

    First, try AlaNon—it is free and an excellent group resource for people living with alcoholics. They do suggest many of the remedies you say you’ve already tried, but they also teach you how to disengage from the alcoholic’s behavior. Importantly, they teach that you, as the alcoholic’s significant other, can’t be the one to try to “fix” the alcoholic. Just makes it worse.

    Second, try UptoParents.org — again, a free resource that you and your ex can use with or without attorneys. It teaches both parents to be as cooperative as possible to avoid conflict. Perhaps if both you and your husband agree to complete their easy online program, his behavior may improve, and –not saying your behavior needs to change, but perhaps you could learn better co-parenting skills too.

    If you’re both confident that the other parent is following uptoparents, then the suspicions of your ex (and maybe you) about alienation will be eased, making cooperation and healthy parenting possible.

    Third — if all this doesn’t work, I’d suggest simply disengaging. Pretend he doesn’t exist no matter what. Sociopaths feed off of the energy of the co-parent regardless of whether it’s positive or negative. If he says he loves you, don’t reply. If he says he hates you, don’t reply. If he has a temper tantrum, don’t react. A famous jazz musician once said “don’t just do something, stand there.” Odd, I know, but like in jazz, absence is often the most effective tool.

    It’s tough — trust me I know — because he’s picking at emotional scars. But if you’re strong you’re your own best defense.

    The hope of course is that he’ll get the message that he can’t manipulate or terrorize you, which is the chief goal of a sociopathic ex-spouse. Provided you don’t attempt to manipulate your own kids, they’ll eventually they’ll get it too — trust me — I’m a child of divorce. I knew very early on who was playing fair and who was playing dirty.

    I wish you the best mominohio.

  32. Sharon
    December 9th, 2011 at 15:27 | #39

    If the childs Mother is a NARCISSITIC-SOCIOPATH the Courts and The Police and the National Guard are the only way to stop the WAR……….. Me, my husband and My Stepdaughter have to endure this WAR everyday and the courts, or police will not stop it so what do you do to make it stop???? Please help….@Cole Stuart

  33. One of Thousands
    December 11th, 2011 at 08:55 | #40

    @Sharon:

    Thank you for your comment. I am so, so sorry for for what you’ve endured. I’ve been where you’ve been. It’s horrific.

    I wish I knew an easy answer. What you must have endured… My heart sinks with your pain.

    It would be great if our government could help but frankly they need our help more than we need theirs. Courts are not the answer. If you ask me, and you didn’t, _Love_ is the answer. I wish we had lots more.

    I’m only a man. A very capable, man, but just a man. My dear, my only intelligent thought is to stay away from the person that is causing you pain.

    Good luck Sharon—It’s a very, very tough world today.

    My prayers will from now include you.

  34. Mike
    December 12th, 2011 at 08:07 | #41

    Is it possible to eliminate or lower the influence the sociopath mother has on my children? Her father is also a very negative picture and he lives with them, and has physically and mentally abused my ex and her sister, so she seems to be repeating some type of circle with our kids, as well. With me being allowed to see my two kids (8 and 5 yr.) every weekend, how should I act to do the best and prevent them from being bad and manipulative persons?

    • December 12th, 2011 at 23:54 | #42

      Mike,

      Your comment reflects some very common concerns. Abusive families often create damaged children who then abuse a new generation as they learned that child abuse is appropriate parenting.

      In my opinion the three most important things you must do are:

      1) Teach them to report severe child abuse to an appropriate person. In your case, that means your kids need to you or a teacher or trusted person outside of their sociopathic parent’s family informed of any time they are being intentionally physically injured or sexually abused by an adult. That means if somebody accidentally steps on your toe and apologizes, it probably isn’t abuse but if you forgot to put the milk back in the refrigerator and got punched in the back for it that is abuse.

      You should teach them about both physical and sexual abuse. You may not think your ex and her abusive father would ever sexually abuse the kids, but if there has been any kind of abuse children are more at risk for sexual abuse in the future. That’s because they are often looking for a supportive adult and fall easy prey to pedophiles who manipulate children to give them things they want (attention and approval, food, clothes, etc.) in exchange for illegal things the pedophiles want (posing for child porn, molestation, etc.). They are old enough to learn. A good book for introducing the concept of sexual abuse for kids around the age of yours is The Right Touch.

      2) Teach them responsibility for their own actions. They have choices, they can make bad ones or good ones but either way they are consequences. Make a good choice like do your own homework and get a B on a test and you get praise, make a bad choice like cheat and you will suffer. Even if you don’t get caught many people feel guilty about cheating, cheaters often have to lie to cover up what they did, and liars often get caught and punished. Do you really want to have to spend all your time remembering your lies and making up new ones? Isn’t it easier to just do the right thing and be honest? People forgive others who make honest mistakes, but they learn to dislike and even hate people who intentionally do bad things and then lie about it to cover it up.

      Explain to them that at their ages, the choices they make may not cause a lot of damage to other people, but they have to learn this well now because as they get older they could severely harm other people when they make bad choices. A person who managed to cheat her way through medical school, for instance, might manage to kill quite a few patients before being caught.

      3) Teach them that there is seldom only one perspective on anything and the most accurate perspective has to account for opinions of more than one person. Ultimately they have to learn how to weigh competing stories and statements that may sound like facts and figure out what is true and false and what is right and wrong.

      Reassure them that you’ll help them do that as well as you can, but sometimes you won’t be there and so they have to learn how to observe who is honest, what information is consistent and what is not, what the rules are, and then make decisions about what is right and what is wrong or who to believe and who not to believe. And teach them that this is a very important skill because when you get it wrong, you can end up being framed for a crime and being put in jail even though you did nothing wrong, have your property stolen by somebody who said they wanted to “borrow” it, or even end up dead because you trusted the wrong person. Reassure them that at their ages, they have time to learn these skills before the consequences are so severe.

      To some degree you can do much of the above with children’s morality stories such as the “Boy Who Cried Wolf” that teaches liars are not trusted by other people and will ultimately suffer for their repeated lies.

      However, such stories are probably too abstract for kids to connect the dots and generalize. You need make the lessons interesting, not lectures, and tie them to the sociopathic behaviors they are are probably observing on a regular basis without directly stating that this is the kind of sociopathic behavior demonstrated by their mother and her father. If you come across as attacking people they probably love to at least some degree, they may tune out and turn off and even not want to see you.

      Superhero stories may help in this regard as a lot of kids like such stories be they in book, comic book, movie, or verbal form. Characters such as Batman and the Joker are good examples. Batman saw his parents murdered in front of him and he feels so bad about it, he wants to help stop bad people from hurting others any way he can. The Joker, on the other hand, enjoys hurting other people and does it for his own enrichment and amusement. Batman is like an abused kid who got taught enough moral lessons as a kid to develop some reasonable sense of justice. The Joker is a sociopath or probably more accurately a psychopath.

      You can even explain to your kids what a sociopath and psychopath are. The kid’s version is that a sociopath is a person who hurts others but is able to fool many or most people into thinking he or she is a good person and a psychopath is a person who hurts others who stands out very clearly as being an evil person to virtually everybody.

      Teach them they are best to stay away from both types of people as they are dangerous, but that it is often very hard to figure out somebody is a sociopath and so you often have to figure out whether somebody is being honest and what their motivations are for their words and actions. Somebody whose words are super-nice could be a sociopath and you may not know it until they do something really nasty. For instance, the older girl in the story Yoon and the Jade Bracelet is a sociopath in the making. She seems very nice to Yoon, then steals the prized gift her mother gave her and accuses Yoon of lying about it having ever been hers. Fortunately for Yoon, her teacher is smart enough to figure it out. But ask your kids, what if the story was changed a little to make it harder for the teacher to figure out? Could the sociopathic kid then get away with the crime? And how would that make Yoon feel? Making them think about how bad it is to be abused by a sociopath in a safe and entertaining scenario and they will be less likely to behave as sociopaths themselves.

      I hope this gives you some practical suggestions on what to do with your kids. If you can share more about what kind of abuse has been reported in your ex’s family of origin and what you think might be going on now, maybe I can think of something more specific.

      Also, are there any particular behavioral problems you are noticing with your kids already?

      Rob

  35. One of Thousands
    December 13th, 2011 at 01:34 | #43

    Wow–Donna: we appreciate your reasearch and tremendous effort, but perhaps some readers have other opinions. I’m only one man, and a very flawed one, but I remember that when I was being an idiot my Mom did … nothing.

    The first step in swimming is– learn to float. The first step in boxing is … The first step in dancing is …. the first, and last, step in love is ….

    Hmmm.

    “Dont just do something, stand there.”

    ~Peter Ustinov

    My best to all

  36. Don M
    December 19th, 2011 at 12:46 | #44

    They come in all forms. My relationship started over 3 years ago with a 35 yo charmer. She had 3 children with 3 different dads. Now there are four. One of the many warning signs is a lack of negotiating skills coupled with a domineering personality based in lies, pain and confusion.

    There have been 8 undocumented instances of her hitting me, 2 more in 2011 where I was arrested for defending myself. And a third in Oct. where she attacked me at the children’s hospital and she was arrested because there was a witness.

    She will stop at nothing to try and keep our son. She tried to have me arrested picking up my son at daycare, to no avail. I have seen her beat her then 7 year old son, watched the children while she lay unconscious and drunk on the floor. For hours.

    She has blatantly displayed other men coming in through the house while I was watching our newborn, openly sexual in nature.

    We have joint custody and she continues to ignore the basic stipulations in place and now have had to appoint a parent coordinator.

    There is no truth, no finding a healthy resolution, and only fabrication and new ways to trap me with authorities.

    Even after doing all my homework, and discovering this narcissistic, evil motivated, falsely based in God mother, it takes someone of a professional nature to listen, understand and offer guidance.

    Sadly there is no way to find a level playing field with this person. And now that my assistance and money have run it’s course, she simply moved on to the next guy, naive enough to see the beauty and available unending barrage of sexual activity that will ensnare him for his turn.

    When a woman only has her beauty, there is always one way to lock in your man. And when she is a nymph, it will take a long time to recover once the new man finds out he has been duped.

    Thankfully I have joint custody or it would be a nightmare. I ran out of cash at the end of our agreement or I would have ordered a custody evaluation, and those two words literally made her and her atty. sign quicly.

    God Bless to all the abused.

    Stay focused in God’s word.

    Peace.

  37. Lori The Brave
    January 14th, 2012 at 23:14 | #45

    Sorry Cole, But you are so off base. The borderline will push for custody if he thinks it will push your buttons, knowing full well he hasn’t the capability or desire. Borderline people are nearly impossible for us adults to deal with. Children must be protected.@ Cole Stuart

    • January 17th, 2012 at 05:42 | #46

      Lori,

      The concern Cole has is that it is way too easy for a liar to destroy the target and hurts the kids wrongly. Furthermore, the courts and government usually help the liar every step of the way once she or he starts making false allegations.

      Why do they do this? Because they get paid to do it. Every child that is banned from seeing a parent is a meal ticket for local governments to be paid by the Federal government for “providing services to abused children” even when there is no abuse, no conviction of any abuse, and no evidence of any abuse on the part of the parent banned from seeing the child.

      There is no individual accountability for the judges who collaborate in defamation, violation of civil and Constitutional rights, and many of these judges are biased because of how they are paid. They are often paid in part or entirely by county or state governments that are deriving income from the US government for seizing children and falsely labeling good parents as abusers and violating their rights.

      In much of a California, it is a proven fact that CPS social workers lie and perjure to “turn a kid into my paycheck via false allegations” because it is a major part of how they help their employers pay for them. They are an organized crime racket. There are a few social workers who genuinely care about children, but they are far outnumbered by those with agendas that have nothing to do with the law or protecting children and everything to do with persecuting people they do not like and getting promotions by taking as many kids away from their families as they can. Just look at the statistics of who the social workers are — they are largely rabid feminists and male-hating lesbians with an intolerance for anybody who believes in God, goes to a church, or thinks traditional nuclear families are a good thing.

      And the judges for the most part do nothing about the perjury of these social workers and the lying parents who initiate the hostilities, even when it is proven. The judges claim that “preponderance of evidence” rules allow them to do whatever they want because even some of the judges are lying about evidence when it suits their purposes. Others are too stupid, uneducated, biased, or corrupt to follow the law and protect people’s rights including the right of children to have both a parent in their lives when that parent has done nothing criminal, abusive, or dangerous to them.

      Often there’s no evidence of abuse, just lots of false allegations and emotional outbursts and defamation campaigns from the liar. The liar who wants sole custody is emotionally convincing so that’s enough for the typical abusive family law judge to pretend there is abuse and then violate the law, thus putting money in the bank accounts of the government that is paying some or all of their paycheck. It’s the Federal Title IV payment system that treats every child as a Federally-funded meal ticket if the local or state government can falsely allege abuse and engage in their own abuses against the child and target parent. This system is part of why the US government is the largest funder and supporter of illegal abuse against American children and parents in the world. Every US taxpayer is complicit in the child abuse being perpetrated by the US federal government and its local lackeys, even if they vehemently oppose the practice, because they have no control over how their tax dollars are used to destroy families and abuse children.

      As far as the Borderlines who are behind many of the false allegations, many are committing crimes that should be landing them in prison. But cops will usually do precisely nothing beyond perhaps taking a police report about identity theft, property theft, harassment, assault, etc. especially when it is a woman doing it to a man in a relationship or from a former relationship. The same goes for the DA. It’s OK to steal bank accounts, medical records, break into your ex’s home and steal property and vandalize, etc. and the cops and DA just say “well, she’s an angry woman so what do you expect”. And when the nutcase is a man, especially one with political connections, credentials (doctor, lawyer, etc.), or money, he’ll get away with the same kind of crimes.

      Curtailing child custody to less than 50% time share should require a criminal conviction for a crime related to a child safety or health issue. Today, all it takes is a false allegation. And even when it is proven false years later, even when the courts clearly state the allegations were lies, usually they will continue to side with the false accuser saying the children are used to living with the liar and so the liar should continue to have sole custody and the children should see little to nothing of the falsely accused parent.

      if it was a foreign nation engaging in such abuses against American children and parents, there’s no question the US would go to war and bomb the nation into the stone age. But when it is American government officials, we’re supposed to think it is OK because they are the government and they can do whatever they want to anybody they want to harm for a buck. Virtually everybody in the government setting these policies or failing to correct them is complicit in the decades of unrelenting abuse, all the way up to child-abuser-in-chief President Obama and VP Biden. They would never allow this to happen to their children, but they will sell and abuse *your* children for a dollar and a vote every chance they can.

      Chris

  38. Lori The Brave
    January 14th, 2012 at 23:21 | #47

    Let’s also not forget that BPD often have drug, alcohol, gambling and sexual deviant issues. My Ex BPD is a total wack job but living only with me the children are happy well adjusted, A+ students with a very fulfilling life. He has resurfaced recently like a cancer. I am back on line to learn not to react. @ Rob

  39. One of Thousands
    January 16th, 2012 at 19:34 | #48

    Thank you for the comment Lori-I’m glad to hear your children are getting through the divorce so well. I hope you can find support and resources at Angiemedia’s excellent site. Welcome.

    If I may respond to your comment.

    I’m a lawyer–thank God not a family lawyer, but I know how the show is run. It’s often not pretty. My point is not that children do not need to be protected, but that government is not the best option. In fact, it’s a terrible option. Ideally, both parents behave. In my limited experience with courts–see Angiemedia’s reviews of Judge Lisa Schall–they often make not only bad decisions, but enable abusers such as my ex to continue their abuse. Sometimes the best choice is avoiding the worst. Someone said “Demoncracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” Maybe it was Michael Jackson.

    I sympathize with your experience with a BPD/NPD–I had a horrific one in my life as well. Google Lynn Stuart. Google Cole Stuart, if you care to. My point, and I respect your own experiences that may influence you to disagree, is that court is a bad choice for family disputes. Perhaps we need more support for dissolving families and less judgment. Leaving any relationship is tough on everyone–It’s possible that our public tax dollars could be better spent on easing that pain that both parents and children are enduring than chosing a “winner” or a “loser.” I suspect that the temptation of “winning” or “losing” is in fact a major factor in causing divorces. And perhaps this is a lure to BPD/NPD types.

    Welcome to our community Lori. Your opinions and experiences are valued.

    Blessings to all.

  40. Mary
    January 17th, 2012 at 00:22 | #49

    I agree with “one of thousands”. However, just because someone is biologically related to the child, does not make them a parent. A sociopath is a dangerous individual and should not be allowed with children. Period. Why are we arguing custody? Clearly if a person has no conscience and is not able to be cured, the court or others should not grant custody just because they are related. In addition, with all the stories out there, if a man or a woman treats their spouse (either current or ex) in the ways described, what on earth do you think they will do to their kids when no one is watching?

  41. Mary
    January 17th, 2012 at 00:43 | #50

    In addition, my ex was a diagnosed sociopath in 2005, but that doesn’t count in the court’s eyes. When we divorced the only thing that kept him from getting full custody is that I took an “illegal” snapshot of his hard drive and he was scared that I had evidence of his child porn addiction. Unfortunately, browsing illegal sites is not considered illegal in Minnesota. He was smart enough not to download or distribute.

    He also tried to kill the dogs while I was out on a business trip. He did this by not feeding them and convincing my son not to flush the toilets to see how gross it would get. It’s fun for a 6 year old, I’m sure. However, as he anticipated, the dogs were so hungry and thirsty they started eating and drinking out of the toilet. I came home early and had a large vet bill and an angry husband claiming “it only happened once…so I made a mistake, get over it!”. The dogs lived after treatment and I had to fumigate the upstairs living areas.
    No remorse whatsoever on his part.

    In a nut shell, now that he is dating a TV news anchor and she is eating up his victim stories and how his ex wife alienated him from his son (he has only called to talk to his son 4x in the past 2.5 years), he is also back “like a cancer”. She is his new meal ticket and he is acting his best, even better than when he fooled me. The courts only care about a dad’s rights, not the fact that he is a dangerous human being. They do not allow for an evidentiary hearing to include anything prior to the divorce decree in post decree matters. I can only use what evidence I have gathered of what he has done to me and his son in the few interactions we have had in nearly 3 years. I have most recently had to press mail fraud claims against him because he put in a false change of address on my accounts and stole my mail.

    People like that should not be around children. Again, it’s not a matter of divorcing amicably. I would not have stayed married another minute if I thought I could protect my son from him and his family (his family is really, really bizarre). I only stayed married because that way I wouldn’t have to share custody and be afraid for my son. When I could no longer protect him by being there 24/7 and realized this after some instances of leaving him alone with my son, he only agreed to divorce if he didn’t have to pay child support (which he only keeps my son on his insurance, with no other support at all). Then he agreed to not to argue for custody as long as I kept his porn issues and other evidence of his behavior (including my attorney’s request for him to take a psycho-sexual eval) out of the public eye.

    Now, his girlfriend, again a TV news personality, is convincing him of his rights. Oh, joy – the Hell starts anew!

  42. Lori The Brave
    January 18th, 2012 at 00:56 | #51

    @ Chris Hi Chris and Rob, Yes you are both right. My case was a child custody case that HE started. I was never trying to take away custody whatsoever. He was completely whacked on drugs and it was being fought in 2 states! No one would drug test him right away like I wished and since he can be very charming and convincing the drugs were my trump card. He put me into a horrible position with this custody game. I had no choice but a full out battle. (allow my young children to move in with him and his equally wacked girlfriend that he had known about 10 minutes, 2500 miles away??!!) Lucky for me he backed down anyway. He was really only after the money. Of course when he was done we had lost over a million dollars. Long ridiculous story but I feel fortunate that he mostly disappeared while the kids were small.

    I did prove he was a liar and all I got for it was the judge saying “Mrs…appears to be the more credible one”. Then the guy disappears for months and is a no show for several appearances. Still he gets away with it. Finally he surfaces with new allegations claiming he gave me the money for the new house I bought ( I remoded homes for a living and had to do something ). Again he loses, again he disappears. Finally we do a motion to enforce the decree as we had agreed since he was going in debt with credit cards of about 100K, and surely planned to stick me with it. Another 2 no show and he resurfaces 10 minutes before it was to be finaled with new allegations. Again it was allowed to litigate…unbelievable.

    He did this as a game to WIN, just as you stated and was never held accountable for the lies and the pain it caused. ( I accused his lawyer of helping to perpetrate this nonsense since my ex was so obviously high at the time). (Boy I could go on and on…kidnapping, extortion of over 50k, blah, blah) Then after all is said and done he hardly saw the kids at all for 4 years. Even remarried ( divorced now, again for 3rd time ) and moved to another country.

    Now the kids are older and there is no money left to go to court, and our decree states that if we disagree the custodial parent will make the decision until we go to mediation first. HA HA, he’d never do that! Mediate? Only reasonable sane people do that! For the record he has the typical every other weekend and 1 midweek overnight, that in the 3 months he’s been here, has rarely exercised . HE’S TOO IMPORTANT, busy busy……

    I do believe the court system failed me. Put me through hell for a year and a half and bankrupt me, so I do see and agree with your point. If it was an automatic 50/50 he would never had gotten to play his game. But the drugs would have been discovered! That would have been good. Maybe he could have gotten help and the personality disorders would have surfaced during rehab?? An overhaul of the system is in order!

    For the record I did not know he had personality disorders back in 2005. I thought he was just on drugs…planned an Intervention but it failed……

    After reading other peoples stories, I am feeling very fortunate with my situation. After much more investigation recently, I now suspect he has Anti-social personality and Narcissism. Whatever it is, he’s back, but I suspect he will move soon since he is SO important…and I won’t let him into my life again. He hates that..

    So my advice.. Try to never talk on the phone..they know and love to push your buttons and will use it against you. Do not write any email that gives them an inch, keep it as business like as possible. Their 3000 abusive emails will be negated by your 1. Don’t give them more opportunity
    to drive you mad…

    • January 24th, 2012 at 20:13 | #52

      Lori,

      Antisocial Personality Disorder is often very hard to distinguish from BPD or NPD. All three of these disorders typically involve some level of breaking of rules and laws with intent to harm other people or to improperly gain advantages over others. Frankly I think the DSM-IV model for personality disorders is not a very good one as there is so much overlap between many of the disorders and some of the disorders, particularly BPD, group together people who behave very differently. By this I mean the self-harm “acting in” versus the harm-others “acting out” subgroups of Borderlines.

      Drug abuse is often involved in all of these personality disorders, too. Maybe it is an attempt to self-medicate to deal with the despair and deep insecurity common with many of these disorders.

      The typical pattern you see in many cases involving these people is they are able to lie and manipulate very well so long as they can keep other people from watching them closely for years. This is precisely why I don’t think deviation from 50/50 shared parenting should be allowed without a criminal conviction (one involving a jury and fair due process standards) that significantly affects the safety or well-being of the children. Such sociopathic people often are able to gain sole custody of the children and block the kids from having much, even any, contact with the other parent. The other parent is usually much healthier in behaviors with the children although also likely to suffer mental health problems from the years of abuse from the sociopath and his or her allies.

      If sociopaths could not gain sole custody so quickly with a false child abuse allegation or other lie, the odds are much higher that their destructive behaviors would be detected and they would not be able to do it later.

      Female sociopaths or wealthy and well-connected sociopaths are particularly able to game the system to harm others. False allegations of child sexual abuse are rampant and particularly damaging to men and easily made by malicious moms.

      There’s no doubt in my mind that there is extensive bias against fathers in the family law courts. However, that doesn’t mean that all mothers are fairly treated. I believe there’s a pattern of abuse against mothers who are not wealthy or well-connected when the fathers are. You see this is case after case where the father is a lawyer, judge, doctor, government official, etc.

      There’s also a general pattern of court-aided abuse when the courts fails to punish perjury, violations of legal court orders (many court orders are illegal and directly contradict both the letter of the law and legislative intent and violations of these orders should not be punished), defamation, harassment, filing of false law enforcement (including CPS) reports, etc. Most courts do nothing more than a “slap on the wrist” such as a verbal criticism in court. As a result the sociopath is encouraged to keep abusing, harassing, lying, and committing crimes because there’s a high chance of success and little chance of them suffering due to their actions. From what you have written, it sounds like your ex falls into this category.

      Hell for a year and a half is getting off light compared to what many people are finding the family law courts do to them. It is not unusual to spend the children’s entire childhood fighting in court when a sociopath is involved.

      I agree with your general “no contact” theme. Sociopaths often try to harass and needle at you with emails and phone calls that to a person who knows nothing about what is going on sound OK. But you know they are lying to your face, threatening you (and often your family, too), and are probably spreading their lies throughout the community of people who surround your children.

      Sociopaths believe that the truth is a popularlty contest and the law and morality is whatever they want it to be for their own benefit. The typical sociopath believes that if you lie enough you can win the popularity contest and make the truth whatever you want it to be.

      Rob

  43. Lori The Brave
    January 18th, 2012 at 15:16 | #53

    Obviously you are in a no win situation. You have to learn to play a little dirty. If he can get away with murder..well so can you. You have tried being reasonable and cooperative, making you the perfect target.

    I know the terror you feel with such young children. Mine were 3 and 6 when he went for custody. Now they are 10 and 13 and on to him. Not a captive audience to his B.S. and he is not really interested in all the work and responsibility being a parent is. My children now have convenient sporting activities, birthday parties and overnights. And he can kiss my a__. It will get better!
    @ mominohio

  44. January 25th, 2012 at 00:28 | #54

    @ Rob
    Rob,

    As you know, many judges behave as sociopaths, too. They will yank custody, throw people out of their homes, seize property, aid and abet theft, ban free speech, etc. even though what they are doing is illegal, unethical, and immoral. Many judges appear to intend to so badly damage the people they are abusing that those people will never be able to challenge them via appeal or judicial complaint or public campaign. This is why I believe that deviating from 50/50 custody should also require involvement of a jury of peers. No judge should have the authority to take such actions as judges routinely abuse their authority so egregiously that many of them are committing very serious fraud, defamation, and civil rights violations with intent to harm.

    There need to be major reforms in judicial accountability to put an end to judicial criminality. Many of judges should be removed from the bench. Some deserve prosecution for their crimes and to be forced to pay restitution to their victims. In general I am not an advocate of the death penalty given the government’s frequent framing of innocent people for crimes and its refusal to re-evaluate a case when strong new evidence comes to light. But most of the crimes these judges commit are on the public record, the evidence is often not in significant question, and the number of people harmed goes beyond that of a simple robbery or murder and in some cases even beyond a deadly school shooting spree or terrorist bombing. Therefore there should be special rules of capital punishment for judges that subject them to execution when they have repeatedly and severely violated the rights of the people appearing in their courts.

    A prime example of two judges who should be executed for their crimes are Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conohan of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. They ran a corrupt scam for several years in which they used their juvenile court judge positions to deny due process to children so as to incarcerate them in private prisons. In the process, they earned millions in kickbacks from the prison operator. Prison time and seizing all of their assets isn’t enough for these two judges. They deserve the death penalty.

    Today’s widespread failure to hold judges accountable for their illegal actions severely undermines the public’s confidence in the government and laws. It threatens the ability of any family to withstand the government’s abusive assaults on its members. It also plays directly into the cycle of child abuse as the sociopath and the government both benefit from child abuse in different ways and collude to continue it. Their collusive criminality results in a new generation of abused kids who will often go on to abuse others similarly to what they observed during their childhoods because they think it is normal and appropriate behavior. This will keep the government busy and ensure full government employment as the ranks of social workers, judges, cops, etc. swell because the public is being duped into thinking that these people behaving as they typically do can actually improve anything when in fact it often making problems far worse.

    Chris

  45. January 25th, 2012 at 17:32 | #55

    @Jonathan

    Jonathan, Please help me out Bro. I live in Tennessee. I am 100% certain I am divorcing a Sociopatic Woman!! I have lived in the nightmare for 5 years. I have a 14 month old son. I would fight to the end for primary parent, or sole custody, but I need to know the path to take. I feel like I have a very good attorney, I have at least 6 weeks of recordings prior to the papers being served that show her evil ways. Can you tell me how to go about getting her ordered to an evaluation? Or, anything that will help me… Thanks so much, Jim

  46. Barbara Martin
    January 29th, 2012 at 20:40 | #56

    Just recently, my son and my 6 yr. old grandson were given permission from a judge, three states away, to relocate with me. The mother of my grandson has been diagnosed as being a sociopath and has been in jail several times, with each offense getting worse and time in between being less. My son has been very abused over the last eight years. And now that my grandson’s mother is a meth-addict on top of everything else the abuse with him continually got worse until my son was awarded 100 percent custudy. I have done everything in my power to help my son and his boy to get away from their situation. They’ve been here for 3 months and she’s been in jail twice for felonies. Her new boyfriend is in prison on felony charges he got with her. This girl is 23 yrs. old. She exibits all of the symptoms of someone with A.P.D. I believe my son could have her rights dissolved, maybe meet a nice girl, put my grandson in counseling and get on with his life. If he’s able to do this, wouldn’t that be better for my grandson. He doesn’t have any kind of relationship with his mother and every couple of months when he has the oportunity to speak with her on the phone he seems very disinterested in her. She is very damaged via the court counselor and has been physically, emotionally abusive and manipulative to my grandson. I believe he might have a chance at a normal peaceful life without her.

    • January 29th, 2012 at 21:40 | #57

      Barbara,

      You’re right to be helping out your son and grandson. But you don’t want it to lead to unintended long term problems with your grandson missing his mom.

      As you say, she’s 23. It’s possible that someday she might not be the out-of-control drugged out person she is now. If you’re right and she had APD or some similar personality disorder, maybe the odds of that are not high. But it could still happen, especially if the drug abuse is the result of some kind of physiological problem (e.g., dopamine neurotransmitter imbalance) that could be treated. And young people (teens especially) often behave like they have impulse control and behavior problems that resemble personality disorders. That’s part of why psychologists seldom diagnose a personality disorder in a child.

      I’d suggest that one approach you could take is for you and your son to make it clear to your grandson that all kids have two parents but sometimes a parent has problems for a while that make it difficult for the parent to care for the children. Explain that mom has some problems right now, she’s using drugs and ending up in jail. Stick to the facts, trying not to sound judgmental. Don’t badmouth the mom, at least not when the kid is around.

      Facilitate interaction, such as letters or phone calls, but leave it up to the kid as to how often this is wanted by him. You want to be sure that he doesn’t at some point in the future end up resenting you or his father for blocking contact with his mother. So long as he is clear on how you have not blocked contact and have not badmouthed his mom, then it is unlikely he is going to resent either of you for the sad situation that exists right now.

      Rob

  47. January 30th, 2012 at 17:56 | #58

    Rob,
    Just getting into this site and been reading alot of the posts lately. I never knew “sociopaths” existed until recently. I have been married to one (in my opinion) for about 5 years now. The whole time the abuse was happening, I searched for ways to make it go away. I even gave in to the distorted and whacky ideas she had about how I was the one with the problem. She had me thinking I was losing my sanity. This lady is so cold hearted, she has no conscience or feelings of remorse. She would push and push until I would leave, and then reel me back in again. Ive been on an emotional rollercoaster ride with my wife. I wanted this marriage to work so bad, that I fooled myself to believe that she would get better…things would be better in time, but it has never gotten better. I cant disclose all the reasons and examples of what makes me think she is ASP/Sociopatic due to the fact I’m just starting divorce litigation. I would beg the judge for custody of our 2 yr old son if it would help. I fear for his future because I feel like the next victim is just around the corner and my son will have to live through it as well. Is there any way I can pursuade the courts to belive what has happened and push for custody of my son? How?

    • January 31st, 2012 at 05:20 | #59

      Jim,

      It’s not unusual for a person in a relationship to get sucked into the lies and believe them. She may whine about how something is so unfair, her boss is sexist, her coworkers are lazy or abusive, etc. And you’ll believe it after hearing it for months. Only much later might you find out that she showed up for work hours late, took off at times when her employer and coworkers needed her to do something important, often couldn’t get her work done even if she was there, and when she did “finish” her work then other people had to redo half of it because of its poor quality. But she may have you so up in arms that you would actually try to help her fight her nasty sexist employer when in fact she is the nasty one.

      The same goes for pretty much any other kind of relationship — friends, family, etc. Many, probably most, sociopaths excel at turning usually sane rational people against other people who are targets the sociopath wants to harm. And often their reasons are to hide themselves from being discovered as the horrible people they are, or as vengeance for other people not giving in to them.

      Even if you can prove that your ex is a liar, manipulator, and perjurer, the courts are likely to side with her anyway. US family law courts are habitually violating the law by demonstrating extreme bias against fathers. I think that for every good father that “wins” against a sociopathic mother in court, there are dozens who are ruined and hundreds who face years of struggle to just be allowed to be a father to their kids.

      Now I know that some female readers will be upset to read this and say it is not true and look at their cases. There are clearly horrible illegal abusive atrocities against mothers, too. Anybody who pays any attention at all to the family law courts in this country knows that very well. But you just look at the statistics of who gets custody and how hard fathers have to fight to even remain a part of their children’s lives for anything beyond paying child support and you can see that there is extreme illegal bias against fathers as a general rule. One or a few cases where some sociopathic father fooled the courts does not counteract the pattern that is widespread across the US. I feel just as sorry for these unfortunate moms who are stuck in a horrible situation where the father is a monster who belongs in prison but somehow ends up with sole custody of the kids and the mother zero contact.

      My advice is that every responsible parent should be advocating for the family law courts to stop micro-manipulating children and parents and stop trying to decide who is the better parent because more often than not, they are getting it substantially or entirely wrong because they are not equipped with the experience, knowledge, or time to do what they are trying to do. Most family law judges have very little knowledge of psychology and spend more time worrying about their next election than the well being of the children affected by their decisions. Some of them frankly are sociopaths themselves. They are exactly the wrong people to be making these decisions and the way they do it, by failing to punish perjury and violations of court orders, simply creates incentive for the sociopathic parent to behave as dangerously as possible right up to the line where somebody is going to be seriously injured or killed because they know that they will never be punished and every lie may “win” another victory for them in court.

      The general pattern in operation is that unless the father is connected with the court or has some “special status” (e.g., doctor, cop, social worker, etc.), then women can lie, cheat, steal, abuse, defame, vilify, and manipulate to harm the father and the kids. Law enforcement will help them do it and courts will do nothing about it except perhaps to reward it. Only when these women go way over the line — kidnapping a child and hiding him or her for months or years, severely injuring a child by abuse, killing somebody, etc. — do courts even try to pretend to do something about it. And even then it is often just a slap on the wrist. And their sister sociopaths will make excuses for them, too — e..g,, all men are evil and she was abused, so of course she had to kill her ex-husband to protect the children.

      It’s not right. It’s not fair. It is a blatant violation of the law. But it is the way it is right now for basically any guy who is not rich and well-connected.

      If you try to get the court to do the right thing and understand the facts in a timely fashion, it is likely it will be twisted and used against you. If you independently gather proof of her being dangerous (drug abuse, DUI driving, etc.), verbally or physically abusive, a liar, personality disordered, etc. then she will say you are somehow wrong for doing that — e.g., you are stalker, harasser, defamer, illegally recorded something, etc. And suddenly the courts are now against you and helping her harm you and the kids, even if you are 100% correct in what you are saying and have solid evidence of it. She will always be able to find another person to manipulate to show up in court to lie for her and who will says you are lying yourself, even when you are night. And the judges are so mentally incapable of figuring out the facts from the fiction that they often decide cases as if they are popularity contests. Sociopaths are popular evil people, so of course they tend to win popularity contests.

      If there’s solid third party evidence of her being a criminal or abuser, such as a police record, criminal convictions, etc. — by all means obtain copies of those records and use them in court. There’s not much of anything a court is likely to do to you for obtaining government records for use in court. The danger is when you independently collect evidence that backs up your story, it opens up the door for the sociopath to start lying even more about you stalking and harassing when in fact you are doing neither. And when judges hear that garbage, most of them will think about “be cautious” and strip you of your rights, hurt your children, and help the abuser because they are worried about the next election and the “what if” question — “what if” you really are dangerous? Today’s family law courts play that game all the time. Speculation and unsubstantiated lies decide cases more often than not because of the very low quality judges that are on the bench and the near total lack of judicial oversight to keep these morons complying with the law.

      I generally advise that the best things you can do are:

      1. Do not trust the court and do not make the mistake of putting your hopes on them getting it right. They will mess up and violate the law as routine matter of practice, and that is if you get a typical judge. If you get a really bad one, such a judge will violate you with illegal decisions in some display of personal vengeance over whatever mental health issues she or he himself has or as a result of corruption or bias from connections with your ex or her attorneys, family, friends, church or synagogue or religious organization, etc. If you are being exceptionally abused by the court, you may get some recourse by filing for a recusal and filing public complaints. But honestly, in today’s climate where judges trample all over the Constitution, you may be setting yourself up for even more problems so you have to be prepared to fight hard if you go that route.

      2. Advocate for shared custody. Every step of the way, argue that kids need both parents and so long as the parents are not abusing them them the kids should get equal time with both parents. The few reasonable people in the court system know that is a reasonable position and matches the spirit of the written law. They may actually help you for taking this position. In all probability, a sociopath will argue against this and say you are an abuser and she wants sole custody. That is part of how the few good people in the family law courts recognize that these people are sociopaths or are crazy.

      3. Get neutral third parties involved for all custody exchanges. Never do an exchange anyplace that is not public. Never trust her friends or family, not even your children’s teachers or school staff. They are subject to the same kind of manipulation she has done to you. Friends and family will lie for her to hurt you and the kids. At least before high school, school staffs are dominated by women and women tend to identify with each other, even when it turns out they are identifying with a sociopathic woman. They will hear and believe horror stories about you and will be biased against you if your sociopathic ex has her way. You may have never even met your children’s new teacher (or even daycare provider) but she may have already heard repeated lies about you being a violent dangerous person and even have been shown false documents to “prove” it.

      Wear a recording device on you at all times at exchanges or when you are out in public with your kids and your ex could know where you are. Most states say you can record anything in public places so stay in public places when the exchanges are happening.

      Sociopaths will lie about anything and everything and it may come down to you have to defend yourself against false criminal charges because she lies to the cops often and is a perjurer in court, too. Absent some concrete evidence and/or neutral third party witnesses, often these sociopaths convince others of their severely distorted or totally inaccurate versions of reality because of the emotional intensity of their “victimhood” act. And when they are women, they have the added advantage of the false stereotypes of men being more violent and dangerous than women.

      4. Keep the kids out of it as much as possible. When your ex lies about you and the kids are talking about the lies, correct the misinformation but stick to the facts and/or painting a full context of the situation to undo the distortions. Do not badmouth her, even if she is the world’s most evil queen sociopath. Tell your kids that kids can benefit from time with both their parents. Never be the one to block contact or access to the other parent. Your kids will probably see her doing all these things that I’m telling you to avoid and see that you do not do them. You will be a role model for how to behave, she will be a role model for how not to behave. Sometimes with sociopaths, this is the best they can contribute to their children’s growth by being prime examples of a horrible person that nobody likes, not even the children.

      5. Your time with your kids is your time. Don’t waste your time talking about the other parent any more than any typical acquaintance would do. Of course ask them things like if they had fun with their mom at some activity they mentioned they did, but do not press them for information. Do not treat them as spies. And do not treat them as confidants. Your sociopathic ex will in all likelihood be using them as spies and confidants. You don’t want your kids growing up thinking this is the way a healthy parent interacts with kids because it is NOT HEALTHY. Somebody has to show them that, so you be the one to show them.

      6. Kids will sometimes treat you like crap, even though they love you. This happens even when there is no divorce or family conflict, but when there is the odds of this being a problem are much higher. Almost no kid can mentally isolate himself or herself from the stream of hate coming from a sociopathic parent and it going to affect their thinking and behavior.

      Sometimes it affects them simply by being fearful of what the sociopathic parent will do. For instance, they may be so afraid of triggering another tirade by malicious mom (or dastardly dad in the case of a sociopathic father) that they go out of their way to avoid you at a school performance when the hateful parent is there and make you wonder why you even came. Such behaviors often speak volumes about how fearful they are of the sociopathic parent. Sociopaths control others via fear, intimidation, lies, and manipulations. They do the same to their kids, too. The kids eventually figure this out at some level and know they do not want to trigger another hateful rage and so they will behave in a way they think will avoid it, even if it may hurt your feelings. When this happens, find a safe time to talk about it later when you and the kids are together and the sociopath is not around. Ask what happened and why they did not say hello when you waved to them or came up to congratulate them on the performance, but don’t pressure them about it. If and when they are willing to talk about it, volunteer that you used to be affected the same way and did some things like they did. Briefly mention you feel bad about hurting other people because of how you allowed yourself to be manipulated, but do not make this a guilt trip. They in all likelihood already experience guilt trips every day with a sociopathic parent. Make the conversation about them, not about you, but be sure they know that you understand and will not hold what happened against them. Even if they say very little, they will probably appreciate and remember what you said.

      7. Read up on parental alienation and personality disorders. Teach your kids about these things in general, but do not make it about them or the other parent. You may find movies, TV shows, books, or other media that show sociopaths and how they behave and can discuss important information about these problems in the context of those “safe” experiences. They are more likely to learn what is right or wrong from this than if you directly challenge the other parent’s evil sociopathic ways and less likely to resent you for it, too.

      8. Realize that there is something about yourself that made you susceptible to being sucked in by the sociopath. Often there’s a “rescuer” mentality about the people sociopaths suck into their web of lies and deceit. You need to figure out what it is and then develop strategies for how to ensure that this never happens again. It’s very important because those who married one sociopath are likely to fall into relationships with sociopaths in the future unless they learn about both sociopaths and themselves and can apply the learning well.

      9. Help your family (parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, etc.) understand what is happening and why. Educate them some on parental alienation and personality disorders. You are going to need their support and help, almost nobody can cope with a sociopath without help from family. And make sure your family knows all about how they should not badmouth the other parent in front of the kids or in any way the kids may know about it.

      I know this is probably not exactly what you wanted, but what you want — for the courts to do the right thing and protect the kids from a sociopath — is in all likelihood not going to happen. And when you push for them to do the right thing, frequently the sociopath is able to twist and manipulate the courts to cause even more damage. After all, this is what they excel at doing — using other people to hurt their enemies. Somebody who is not a sociopath cannot compete with this head-on and it oftens turns out to be dangerous to even try.

      I don’t mean that you should not defend yourself. Rather, you have to go to exceptional lengths to be nonconfrontational and reasonable or else you are just playing into the sociopath’s image of you and because the courts are populated with morons (or worse) they are readily manipulated and will fall into viewing anything and everything you do or say based upon the “confirmatory bias” blinders the sociopath is putting on them.

      Ultimately, you have to figure out how to make the best out of a very bad situation that is likely going to last at least another sixteen, if not more, years. Quite honestly, often the people whose psycho-ex kidnaps the kids and runs away are luckier because that is one of the few things that law enforcement and the courts ever take seriously. Short of something very severe like that, they are likely to leave your kids living with a sociopath at least half the time. If you do a very good job the other half when they are with you, you kids can still turn out OK in the end.

      Rob

  48. J. Doe
    January 31st, 2012 at 05:57 | #60

    Wow…may even be an ICHG female HR employment lawyer….named….who stalks me…BPD sociopath…

    ‘We figured out where you live’
    “I can kick your ass, we’re blackmailing you’

    ..manipulate all day every day as as ‘victim’…for a decade…baiting and lose lose…control by proxy…alienation…CONTROL…Holiday Inn…ICHG….

  49. One of Thousands
    February 1st, 2012 at 07:31 | #61

    Excellent advice Rob. Thank you for everything you do here.

  50. Simply Surviving
    February 10th, 2012 at 19:07 | #62

    Thank you to all who have put their stories out for others. I am so glad to know I am not alone. I was in a relationship for 15 years with a Sociopath (12 of which I was married). I am now trying to co-parent with this person and I watch the pain they cause my children and I feel like the court has tied my hands. I am $80,000 in legal fees and have barely proved to the court he is a liar. Even then they still believe he is a good parent. The court ordered evaluator, even felt he was a better parent than me. My oldest (12), amazes me everyday with how he has delt with the realization that this parent just does not care. He feels bad for his younger sibling who still believes in his father and is so supportive. I worry that he has had to grow up so quickly and cope, to protect himself from the hurt and pain having a sociopath as a parent has caused him.

    I have read a lot of the posts and need more advice how to help my children through this, so they do not end up bitter and angry. I do not have the time to wait for the courts to catch up on the education of sociopathic behaviors.

    Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story and help me.

  51. levelsofanxiety
    February 27th, 2012 at 15:27 | #63

    I just came to the realization that i lived with a sociopath for 18 years.

    We have been legally separated for almost 3 years and have 2 young children together.

    Our legal interspousal agreement pertaining to our children is a joint custody arrangement with myself holding primary residence…this happened…luckily because he planned to move away just after i signed the joint 50-50 agreement, but i found out before i signed the agreement.

    Because he moved…I found i also had to move to be able to work and parent full time…so i moved closer to his community…originally a 3 hr drive to just over a 1 hour drive to his community so the children would be able to see him more frequently and for longer times.

    Recently…7 months ago…he relocated to my new community…with the pretense of spending more time with the children. He actually sees them for less time…but much more frequently..which at first was a godsend. My children are much more settled generally in this situation. He involved himself heavily in their extracurricular activities out side of school. However…in his coaching efforts…he was quickly discovered and had “stepped down” from Head Coach of my older childs team.

    My concern…that i need some help with…is now that he is not involved with my older childs activity…he is encouraging my child to try other things…which isn’t a problem…the problem is now…my child doesnt want to do the original activity AT ALL and has all kinds of excuses…such as “the team sucks” “we never win any games” “the other kids on the team caused dad to not be a coach” I believe all of these things have been coached to him by his manipulative father…which i cannot say much…I want to be a good parent…I want his father to be a good parent…that won’t happen.

    All I can think of to do…is to limit the “unplanned” time they spend together…without giving my ex any “ammunition” so he can lay blame at my feet.

    The most exhausting part is spending my life trying to be 3 steps ahead and becoming very adept at reactive parenting.

    I also noticed somewhere that modeling a “healthy relationship” for my children would be a good thing…Unfortunately i find myself hyperaware of ANY thing that could be considered manipulative…like this…I have one friend that has bought me a rose for valentines day….one small part of me thinks..”did he buy that so i don’t invite other men to my home while it sits on my counter” A big part of my brain KNOWS this is silly! but always that nagging thought! and there is a little thought like that with any man i even manage to build up enough confidence to talk to…

    Please…any help would be awesome!

    • February 27th, 2012 at 19:44 | #64

      levelsofanxiety,

      Obviously you’re worried about a lot of things. You didn’t explain what happened in the past for you to conclude that he’s a sociopath, but clearly something has you rattled as you seem “hypersensitive” not just about possible relationships with men but also what is going on with the kids. I’d suggest you need to look at your past, not just your 18 year relationship, but also the family or families with which you grew up. Often people who are having difficulties with situations like yours have some baggage from their own childhoods and it is not just the abusive relationship. I wrote an article Relationships and Divorces with Someone Who Suffers Borderline Personality Disorder almost two years ago that discussed this along with a really good book by a therapist on emotionally abusive relationships that might help you sort it out. I’ve used this book with some others. It was clear that it helped identify problem areas in both childhood and adult relationships. The format helps people think through childhood past, adult past, and present and see how things that went wrong earlier often are involved in later problems. I’m not saying your ex is a Borderline, just that if you’re describing him as a sociopath then articles like that one are probably going to help you understand his behaviors and yours, too.

      I don’t know what “he was quickly discovered” pertaining to the kid’s sports team means specifically, but will assume for the moment it was something not nice but not illegal, either. (Otherwise I’m guessing you’d be discussing pending criminal charges against him.)

      It’s possible that your older child is embarrassed by what happened and doesn’t want to associate with a group that knows about it because it is stressful even if Dad says nothing. It may not just be whatever Dad is telling the child.

      Here’s what I’d do in your situation given the limited information you’ve provided so far:

      1) Talk with the child and discuss how as he gets older it is important that he makes his own decisions and you’ll support those decisions when he can provide good reasons for them.

      2) Discuss how sometimes people have to last through the low times of some group or event to be there for the great times. If you are attending a sports games and your favored team is losing and you walk out, you must might miss the exciting ending where they come from behind to win and everybody is talking about it for weeks.

      3) Mention that often kids are influenced by people who have agendas of their own that may not have any similarity to what is actually good for the kid. Give some examples that are about peers and some that are about parents, too.

      Peer pressure examples could include, for instance, when a kid influences other kids to shoplift or spray painting graffiti on houses because he makes it sound daring and cool. It’s obviously wrong because it is hurting other people. So why would the kid be encouraging others to do it? Perhaps because he or she has problems at home and wants attention and can’t get it through positives so will get them through negatives. And if he or she can point to lots of other kids doing these wrong things, maybe he or she thinks the parents will give the attention but not be as upset.

      Another example is about parents who are both doctors and who insist that their kids must become doctors even though the kids are not at all interested in the practice of medicine. One wants to be a writer, another a video game programmer. Explain that some parents are more concerned about their own appearance than what is best for their kids. Writers and video game programmers probably won’t be as wealthy as doctors in most cases, but maybe the kids would be happier doing those things for careers and having less money. The important points are that the kids should be able to make life decisions and not have to blindly do what the parents say. parents need to help guide the kids, but guide is not the same as control. In this case, the parents might guide the kids by providing information on what it is like to have careers in medicine, writing, and video game programming and find some people who do these things for the kids to talk about it. That’s different than telling the kids that you will not help them pay for college unless they sign up for a pre-med program.

      Depending upon how old your kids are, you may need to think of some more age appropriate examples. You said you were together for 18 years but have young children so I’m not sure what exactly that means and am guessing it might mean the kids are pre-teen but old enough to think about issues like the examples I gave.

      4) Don’t try to limit the unplanned time when that time is around other people doing normal kid activities and you wouldn’t be spending time with the kids anyway. This will be seen as adversarial and is probably is to at least some degree. It is likely to build animosity and cause more problems. Whether he can “lay blame” or not is kind of beside the point. What is more critical is what your kids think and what doing this would cause your ex to do. Your kids may get annoyed that you prevent them from having their father do things with them at school or community activities and he’s sure to be upset about it, even more than some might if he really is a sociopath as these people hate having limits put on them even more than most people do. When the limits do seem unreasonable, they are all the more likely to get advice from others to take you back to court and start fighting to take away the time you have with the kids.

      Nobody “wins” such a dispute as the kids and you and he will all suffer for it no matter the outcome. The situation you have now is not perfect, but it may be “good enough” especially as there by the sounds of it is not a lot of conflict at the moment.

      5) Modelling healthy relationships for kids is a good thing. If he’s a sociopath, he will probably not be able to do this well for the kids. If you’re healthy, you could. It is probably best not to introduce the kids to your romantic relationships until they have had at least a few months to solidify and still look promising. So the first step here is really to get yourself some help at judging what is reasonable and what is not because by your own statements, it sounds like you are aware that you have some issues in this area. Hopefully you have some friends or family who are stable and in healthy long-term relationships that can help guide you on this.

      If you’ve got some more detailed information to share, perhaps you’ll get some more precise advice. But I think the above is pretty good general advice.

      Rob

  52. levelsofanxiety
    February 28th, 2012 at 13:09 | #65

    @ Rob
    you are absolutely correct Rob…I have not given you nearly enough information….I have to admit i was excited at getting some advice and nervous about posting all the information needed to give better directed advice…i did post this while at work and was in too much of a hurry…I will take some time to answer all your questions and then get back…Thank you for what you have shared with me so far.

    • February 28th, 2012 at 21:52 | #66

      levelsofanxiety,

      When posting about topics like this in a public forum, avoid using names for your ex and kids or even identifying any location within a few hundred miles of where you live. Try to be specific without being identifying. As an example, “a pre-teen team sports group” is probably just as good as “Wilshire Street girls age 10-12 soccer club” would be as far as discussing a problem, but is way better at avoiding somehow letting your ex know you are discussing the situation.

      The sticky point is often the ages. There’s a huge difference between a 3 year old and a 6 year old, for instance, and that can be very relevant to any discussion. But even that can be made somewhat identifying by referring to school classes rather than ages — e.g., preschool or first grade.

      Rob

  53. putkidsfirst
    March 3rd, 2012 at 20:07 | #67

    @Cole Stuart Interesting that the lesson taught to us by King Solomon should be that the true parent would NOT want to cut the child in half, yet that is exactly what 50/50 custody does: it splits the child in half between the two parents! For shared custody to work, the parents MUST be able to work together very closely… something that CANNOT be done when one is dealing with a sociopath.

  54. SD parent 22
    March 4th, 2012 at 13:41 | #68

    @putkidsfirst Wise words Sir. Thank you. Like most, I know the fable well. In fact I’ve told it so many times I perhaps I’ve earned the reputation to call it my own.

    We may perhaps differ on solutions to this problem of custody. If you ask me–and you didn’t so my apologies in advance–children love both parents even if the parents don’t love each other anymore. It’s sad we can’t all “just get along.” Our problem. Not the kids’.

    Your child, I suspect, loves you and your mother with all of his or her heart. to deprive him or her from that ability to love may have consequences. Our current court system inflicts that deprivation regularly. I, as one man, think that depriving a child of time with his loving parents is horrendously cruel and about as pure an evil as exists. I will fight it, and its insidious consequences, until my last day on this planet.

    My best to you Sir.

  55. jane
    April 20th, 2012 at 00:25 | #69

    @Jonathan the last paragraph i completely understand.. nobody gets it until they actually see it for themselves. I loved the last part of your paragraph.. i too live in fear of the next step he takes toward attacking me.. what I have survived so far is a scene straight out of a movie often times I am in mourning that anything like this could be allowed to happen to me and my children. the manipulation the games the gaslighting completely horrific. I am so sad that my children have had to go through all this knowing he has NO love for them at all and only looks good when someone is watching so he can put on his act. My story I will have to post some time.. so many say I should write a book as my story is still going… i am on my way back to court to clarify orders that the socio uses any grey areas to bully us with there is no reasoning with HITLER my therapist who has a PHD has said of my ex husband.. indeed no reasoning with that mentailty many blessings to any and all who have endured and value integrity more than any dollar amount you can think of…. xoxo

  56. putkidsfirst
    May 16th, 2012 at 15:43 | #70

    I agree with your position assuming you have two loving parents who equally care for a child. But we are not talking about 2 normal parents who are contributing equally to the bickering. We are talking about co-parenting with a sociopathic partner. I am referring to someone suffering from Antisocial Personality Disorder, who lacks the ability to have empathy. Significant scientific research has shown that living with a sociopath puts the child at a great risk for developing the condition themselves. In fact, they recieve a double dose- they are genetically at risk and enviromentally at risk. That being said, sociopaths often pursue shared custody when their real agenda is to eliminate the loving parent later on down the road- AKA REVENGE. They fail miserably to consider what is really best for the child because they are not able to put the childs best intrest first. Children should not be subjected to this type of arrangement without a clear finding that the parents have hsitorically cared for a child equally. Like it or not, children often form stronger attachments to the parent they feel the most safe with- which in my expierence is NOT the sociopathic parent. Again, numerous studies tell us that the quality of a relationship between a parent and a child doesn’t hinge on the amount of time spent together but rather the QUALITY of time. So maybe we need to focus more on how to do that as oppossed to fighting over “splitting the prize”. @SD parent 22

  57. Uncle Freddy
    May 18th, 2012 at 17:17 | #71

    Let’s get something something straight: cops are extra screwed by the DDVI and probate court. Anyone saying judges side with cops as a matter of practice is an idiot and a buffoon and should not be listened to. You should try to not get cops involved because they don’t want to be involved in domestic squabbles- it’s just more being lied to and a good chance they are going to be answering to an internal affairs complaint.
    1. cops have a steady very attachable paycheck and a retirement which can be seized easily by the black-robed thieves.
    2. cops carry guns – automatically reason to grant an RO.
    3. when a cop gets a fraudulent RO on him, it’s desk duty, no OT. Often can mean termination and definitely a career killer.
    4. when a cop is fired, it’s not like he can go down to the local union hall and get another job as a cop – he’s done. Start over sucker. And if you’re in your 30′s, 40′s, 50′s, you’re screwed.
    5. A judge can order a cop to pay almost any amount in child support because there’s nothing the cop can do. What’s the cop going to do? Challenge it?

  58. Miduct
    May 25th, 2012 at 12:42 | #72

    @Cole Stuart
    I disagree strongly with your opinionated reply. You have obviously NEVER had to deal with a sociopathic parent and try with all your strength to fight a system that keeps allowing your children to be put into a dangerous, harmful situation. Not everyone has the perfect life; not all custody disputes are just 2 hurt adults. There really are bad people in the world, crawl out of your hole.

  59. Miduct
    May 25th, 2012 at 12:44 | #73

    @putkidsfirst
    EXACTLY!! Thanks for that great reply!

  60. T. Moore
    June 12th, 2012 at 14:05 | #74

    I am currently going through a divorce with a person who was diagnosed with BPD 3 yrs ago after I had her commited for an overdose on Xanax. We have been married for nearly 9 yrs now. I found that she was cheating on me and filed for divorce. My story is exactly like everyone else’s on this board, but I never really understood until recently what I had been through over the years. We are working on a settlement for 50/50 custody which is NOT what I want because I fear for the safety of my children, but at this point I don’t know what to do. My lawyer has asked for very strict restrictions on her in the settlement, which means I will have to keep taking her back to court when she violates court orders. She has falsely accused me of abuse against her when she is the one that drinks and takes out all of her problems on me. I have enabled her over the years by bailing her out of DUI’s, accidents, etc. I am usure of whether I can afford to fight this as her family has money and she has started a campaign against me. What should I do? Do I trust in the courts to follow through with the court orders? I have recently started seeing a counselor because of all of this. Please help.

  61. June 14th, 2012 at 22:56 | #75

    @T. Moore

    I would suggest you pursue 50/50 custody with an extensive set of safeguards designed to protect your kids and you.

    If you pursue sole custody right away without trying this first, I personally think this can be confused with the tactics of a sociopath. Many Borderlines or other sociopaths are very good at projecting that their victims are the ones engaging in abuse and if you show even the slightest sign of any “mean” behavior, they will find a way to portray themselves as the victim and you as the abuser and your behavior (even if it is normal under the circumstances) as “proof” of your abusiveness.

    You need at least two major safeguards for your situation, possibly more but I am just going by what you have described so far.

    First, you need a court order that everybody in the family (all kids and both parents) are in mandatory court ordered therapy with a court order that states all therapists must discuss any abuse reported by anybody in the family (either parent or the kids) before they can file a CPS or police report.

    Second, your ex should be required to be monitored by a psychiatrist or drug abuse clinic and these people should be under court order to contact all three therapists in writing with any concerns about continuing drug abuse or to report compliance with the drug abuse prevention measures they are using with your ex.

    US family law courts are horrible and you should not trust them an inch unless you see you are one of the few who gets a competent judge who is not corrupt.

    Sociopaths like taking everything to court. They love the drama, the feeling they can “win” even if it just means they made you waste thousands on an attorney. A good book to learn more about this is Bill Eddy’s High Conflict People in Legal Disputes.

    There’s a great article on the “win by hurting others” attitude prevalent among sociopaths at Shrink4Men that can help you with some insights. Expect that you will be a target for abuse and harassment that will not stop for years, if ever.

    You need support that probably goes beyond what you can afford from therapists. I recommend websites like this one, reading some of the books I’ve mentioned in past articles, and support sites such as these:

    BPD Family Message Board

    Borderline Personality Disorder Forum

    Also you may try to find a local support group for targets and family members of sociopaths, Borderlines, and/or Narcissists. If you live outside a big city region, this may be hard to do so on-line groups may be more practical.

    Be cautious about how you engage in support groups as you don’t want your sociopathic ex to stalk you via your involvement or to take your words and use them against you in court.

    Rob

  62. T. Moore
    June 15th, 2012 at 09:46 | #76

    Rob,
    Thanks. These are great suggestions and I will speak to my lawyer about getting these into the settlement agreement or court ordered. He believes it is only a matter of time before she shows her true colors and violates court orders. So do the people that know her well (mutual friends) and myself. It may take some time but I will have to be patient and let it play out. Just yesterday she told me I was harrassing her (she called me) and I had better behave or she would circulate a picture around that she has. I have no worries of this as I know I didn’t do it and have documented the numerous times she stays out late or all night long and comes home with scratches/bruises on her. Additionally, her new boyfriend has CDV’s on his record. I believe this helps my case. I also keep an audio recorder at all times (I live in a 1 person consent state) based on my lawyers suggestion. After reading numerous articles and websites I expected this. I have limited our engangement with each other but still have to deal with her because of the children.

    I have in the settlement that I can request an Alcohol/Drug screening at any time I suspect she has been drinking/taking drugs around the children. Her and I both have therapists at the moment (she actually has 2), which my insurance pays for. I also have authorization from my insurance to get my children into therapy. I have joined a support group at my church for divorcee’s (she has no idea I am going). I am doing everything I can to keep myself healthy in all this mess. I am getting a restraining order against her boyfriend in the settlement as he has threatened to hurt me (of which I can provide proof). There is also a “no contact” clause on him to be around my children (at least until we are officially divorced). I will keep you posted. Thanks for the advice and information.

    T. Moore

  63. June 15th, 2012 at 19:52 | #77

    @T. Moore

    The audio recorder idea is excellent. In most jurisdictions it is legal to record in public settings without consent from anybody else. I would advise you to wear one or better two recorders on you at all times if you are doing custody exchanges, attending school performances or events, or going anywhere else that your ex may know where to find you.

    Never do custody exchanges in a private residence or a location that does not have a lot of neutral people around. Never get close to your ex, either. All it takes to land you in jail is that she approaches you, falls on the ground or can show she has some bruise or other injury, and then falsely claims you pushed or hit her. If you are never within 100 feet of her, this is much less likely to happen.

    Get a recorder that can run at least 8-10 hours on a charge and has at least 24 hours recording capacity. It should also have USB connectivity and preferable record in MP3 format so you can easily keep a record of all the recordings on your computer.

    Keep some spare charged batteries in your car. Eneloop rechargeable batteries are really good for this as they have a very slow discharge rate while not being used as compared to most other batteries. You can expect they will hold most of their charge for at least six months and maybe over a year whereas many other types will be nearly fully discharged after even just one month sitting in a car.

    You may also want to experiment with where to wear recorders on you (pocket, jacket, some kind of strap that keeps it under your shirt, etc.) for best recording quality. Part of the problem with recorders is that they often pick up the sounds of you walking as your clothes and items you are carrying are moving around. This can drown out what you want them to be recording. Wearing or carrying two recorders in different places can sometimes overcome this problem.

    I would strongly advise you to never talk with your ex on the telephone. At least use email, better yet is something like Our Family Wizard or Share Kids that makes it easier to get the communications prepared for court.

    If you must talk with her such as in some emergency involving the kids, be sure to have it on speakerphone and have multiple witnesses. Some say it would be a good idea to record it even it if is technically illegal. Realistically there is little chance you are going to be prosecuted for recording a phone call even in a 2 party consent state if you don’t misuse the recording for some purpose such as extortion or harassment. Having proof of what was said or not said can make the difference between you ending up in prison or losing custody of your kids when she lies the next time.

    Get your kids into therapy as soon as you possible can. It takes time for kids to become comfortable with a therapist. You want them to be able to be open with the therapist if and when your ex and her boyfriend are abusing them or engaging in substance abuse.

    You may also need to get court orders stating that the children’s therapist is their sole therapist so that your ex cannot “therapist shop” to have your kids see mutiple therapists. This is a common tactic for sociopathic women in particular as they know if they find some misandrist therapist (usually women, but there are men who fall into this category, too) who believe that all men are abusers and all women are victims, it is easy to get these therapists to collaborate at filing false abuse reports against you or engaging in some other crime.

    Restraining orders usually do not protect men from abusive women. The cops seldom will arrest a woman who violates a restraining order due to their sexist bias fed by training that says only men are violent and dangerous. There’s also a risk that a restraining order may incite a truly violent person into worse violence than without one.

    It’s routine for today’s restraining orders to be used as a means to abuse other people. It is so easy to get one based upon false allegations with no hearing and no chance to defend against it prior to issuance. Then the abuser will parade it around to everybody (teachers, childcare providers, doctors, churches, etc.) as “proof” the restrained party has done something wrong to build a community of hate used to further abuse and alienate the children from the falsely accused parent.

    I believe that in most instances courts should be issuing mutual keep away orders rather than restraining orders on one party prior to when adequate due process has run its court to ascertain what has occurred and who is at fault. This takes some of the “blame and judgment” out of the process and it can be portrayed as routine safeguard rather than a commentary on allegations (false or otherwise).

    It sounds like you have proof of your allegations, but just remember that when you focus even justified accusations and blame on a sociopath it is common that the sociopath will react with further violence and maliciousness. They can be very devious about the next means they use to harm you. Be prepared for that.

    Rob

  64. T. Moore
    June 15th, 2012 at 23:50 | #78

    @Rob
    Rob,
    I have an excellent recorder that has noise cancellation and a slow rundown time on batteries (along with all the other things you suggested. I have limited my contact with her and record every time we are around each other. She hasn’t “officially” moved out yet and based on the settlement I will be the one moving out, but that is fine by me. The house will be paid off (her mom) and I can move my VA loan to another, less expensive home as long as I stay in the same school district. She is now controlling me financially because she hasn’t paid any of our mutual bills in 2 months (she has the money, trust fund) but would rather spend it on herself instead of help support our children. I am trying to prepare and learn about everything that she will try to do to me. This and the websites you have suggested have been a great help in getting me prepared for what’s to come. I know it will be a long road but will be worth it in the end. My children are my life and I would do anything for them, no matter the cost. As of yet she has no idea of the recordings and I sent your suggestions to my lawyer to get them worked into the settlement. She admits many things and shows her true colors on these recordings. She has also cut herself at least 3 times that I know of in the last 3 months. She has come home after being out all night with scratches and bruises all over with some story of giving someone a ride home she didn’t know and he attacked her (recorded). These things I may be able to submit as proof of her instability and lack of judgement. Regarding the phone contact, she calls to say goodnight to the children but we usually don’t say anything to each other, I just hand the phone to the girls. I have learned from these sites not to engage her any more than I have to. She just tries to suck me back in with her drama and now that I am aware of it I can ignore it. I will keep you posted.

    Thanks,
    T. Moore

  65. T. Moore
    June 18th, 2012 at 09:14 | #79

    Rob,
    I have a question maybe you can help me with. I have been covering all the bills for 2 months now even though she still uses the house and is still responsible for her part of the bills. How do I go about asking her for money for the bills to help support the children until everything is settled without causing an argument? Do I do it through the lawyer’s? I tried this and I got $250 and that was it, which doesn’t cover much. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    T. Moore

  66. June 19th, 2012 at 19:54 | #80

    @T. Moore

    You may have to ask for a court order for her to pay her share of the expenses. You can try to get her to stipulate to something reasonable, but I suspect she will play games and delay this for months or forever. So you are probably going to need to file a motion in court to get an order for her to pay. If she does not pay in accordance with that order, then you can attempt to get an order to garnish her wages or seize portions of her assets to cover what she owes.

    I don’t know of any likely way to get a person who behaves as you say your ex does to be fair or reasonable except by judicial force. Truth be known, even that is usually not enough.

    You should ask yourself if it is worth it. If it is going to cost you forty hours of legal bills to get $1000 out of her, it is probably not worth it from a financial angle. Then again, if you have a competent judge who is willing to throw her in jail for contempt of court then maybe it is worthwhile because it may help you protect the kids from her abuse.

    Rob

  67. APG
    June 20th, 2012 at 00:57 | #81

    ‎.
    Has anyone here ever encountered a person who
    suffers (or causes others to suffer) from an odd
    case of ‘Golden Uterus’ Syndrome (GUS)?
    .
    http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/05/17/does-your-wife-or-ex-wife-have-a-golden-uterus-complex-15-characteristics-of-the-golden-uterus/
    .

  68. davidc
    June 28th, 2012 at 13:40 | #82

    Reading this site scares the crap out of me.

    Unlike may of you. I have had a reasonably happy marriage (20+ yrs), and a reasonably happy family. Another woman that we both knew and trusted acted like she was “open minded” and into “alternate relationships”, it took my wife a lot of trust to allow that. But then from the moment this woman got pregnant – she tried to use that as leverage to force me into divorce and marry her. It became like a contest, she put my family through hell, she was totally oblivious to the suffering she caused anybody.

    Looking back, it should have been obvious. This woman can’t hold down a friendship or a relationship to save her life, I don’t know why we thought things could be any different with us. Rather than seeing us as open minded, I think she saw us as an easy target to try and get a marriage that she couldn’t get otherwise. Getting pregnant was how she obligated the last sucker she was married to. Which was another warning sign, because looking back it should have been clear to me that she absolutely hated everything about my personality, beliefs, and who I was. I was blinded by love, but why would she want to marry somebody so badly – that she hates? It appears that marriage is about her status and reputation, something to make her look good in social circles and to show up her family, love is totally irrelevant.

    To get an idea of who she is, when our son was born, I didn’t want him circumcised, so she of course promptly had him circumcised to show me who was boss. Now, I understand that this procedure is done by millions of parents who love their kids, but not to show up the other partner who is the boss.

    On the one hand she would say that I “owed her a baby”, but then on the other she would accuse me of trying to trick or force her into a relationship that she didn’t want.

    Also, I just skimmed the link above about (GUS) – yes that seems a lot like her. Why did she want a marriage when it was also clear that she thinks men are totally irreverent? And when I google “sociopath checklist” and read it, she lights them up like a Christmas tree.

    My son is 3 now, and we’ve managed to keep this out of the system and the courts even though she has had plenty of guys in and out of her life since then that she wanted to rip my son out of my life and give to them each time. I think she wants to avoid the system because she doesn’t want to be discovered, and I don’t want to deal with the legal system because I know it is expensive and fucked up. However, My family and I have gone through hell and back over the last several years, and I don’t like the situation that my son is in at all, and I consulted with a lawyer this week.

    I don’t want a to go into the legal system, but I don’t know what else to do. I’ve tried logic and reason, tried appeasement and treating her nice, tried bribing her by paying support money early and lots of other extras, tried getting her into a visitation contract which I finally got – but it still went to hell.

    I think the straw that broke the camels back was her most recent boyfriend happens to be a cop. It became pretty clear to me that she intends to try to use him as a weapon against me. When I first saw him, I was actually relieved that he didn’t appear to be a psycho, now it seems like she intends to take her battle to a new level. I don’t think I have any choice but to get a good lawyer and battle it out.

  69. June 28th, 2012 at 19:09 | #83

    @APG

    “Golden Uterus Syndrome” is pretty much the rule for a woman with a personality disorder who has kids. There’s no exact equivalent to it for personality disordered abusive men because society has decided that being a mom is “the world’s hardest job” and that women can do whatever they want with little if any accountability.

    If you’re a Shrink4Men reader, you should listen to the audio programs that Dr. T and Paul Elam put on that are linked to from that site. They are really insightful and very balanced, contrary to the drivel in most of mainstream media that says it is fine for a woman to beat a man, attempt to kill him in his sleep, etc. and we should all understand her pain because of course “men are bad” and “women are good”. In reality, evil and abusive behaviors are to be found in both genders and in more or less equal levels. It is our society that is broken to the point that a man who raises a hand to defend himself against an attack by an abusive woman will go to jail and a woman who attempts to murder a man who has never even been accused of violence against her will be let off with little if any consequence.

    I just want to add, there’s no offense intended to the many good women out there by the Shrink4Men folks or any of us here. And if you listen to Dr. T and Paul Elam on their talk show, this comes across all the more clear as they advocate for the end of gender bias and towards better understanding and relations between men and women.

    Rob

  70. June 28th, 2012 at 21:08 | #84

    @davidc

    If I understand what you mean about the “alternative relationship” thing, in a typical Western culture it is nuts to get involved in that as there’s a high chance that somebody wanting it has problems ranging from attachment issues all the way to a personality disorder. I say this in part because I’ve heard details of another case involving “swingers” that reminds me a bit of your situation with the outcome of a probable Borderline mom having sole custody of an alienated son and the target father ending up in prison over lies and distortions.

    As you are finding out, there is no way to enforce an agreement with a crazy person. These people will often agree to something and then violate the agreement. They even do this when you agree to their proposal. And frequently they then try to blame you for the violation.

    A psycho ex with a cop boyfriend is hugely dangerous. Far too often, the difference between a cop and a criminal is really only the uniform and the source of their pay. That’s not to say that all cops are abusers as there are some good cops. But because of the “blue wall” the dirty abusive cops tend to stay on the police force because their “better” coworkers function as silent accomplices by failing to do anything to weed out the bad ones.

    Tactics that cop boyfriends and cop friends have been known to use to harass people in your position include:

    1) Filing false police reports

    2) Harassment at custody exchanges, including unwarranted police stops and arrests — I know of one case where this has happened over a dozen times outside of a court-ordered supervised exchange center, so literally there may be nowhere in the cop boyfriend’s jurisdiction or sphere of influence (such as adjacent jurisdictions) that you can be safe from this abuse if the cop decides to participate in harassing you.

    3) Pursuit of baseless criminal investigations including raiding a person’s home at gunpoint with a mass of police officers, many of whom have been lied to by the abusive cop about why this is happening

    Remember that cops carry guns, too, and are known to shoot and kill people without cause.

    I think you should get a lawyer, possibly two of them including a family lawyer and a lawyer specializing in police abuse cases. Discuss the possibility of them filing a formal notice on the police department warning them that you are being harmed and harassed by your ex (be sure to provide some evidence of this, such as documented court order violations) , she has a pattern of using her new relationships to help her harass you, and that as she now has a police officer boyfriend that if he becomes involved you will file complaints, litigation, and disclosures to the public media against the police department, city, county, or other political subdivision that is running the police department over any harassment incidents. Your attorneys might consider asking that the cop’s supervisors put him on notice that he will be watched closely because of his relationship with your ex.

    Be careful not to accuse or even imply the cop of has done anything wrong if he hasn’t done so. You want him to feel like he has an out, that he didn’t know how nuts this woman is, and that his supervisors are rightly worried about the situation based upon your ex’s past actions and their potential liability now that he could become involved.

    A regular family law attorney will probably be out of his or her realm in this kind of situation, that is why I think you may want to have a second attorney with experience in police abuse cases. Preferably it would be one who has won a successful police abuse suit against the police department involved as then they would be more likely to take a warning letter seriously.

    Rob

  71. missy
    July 4th, 2012 at 00:47 | #85

    these are not normal feuds, and the children are harmed as well. socios DO NOT have any capacity for compassion or have to have a reason for acting out. I have not ever given my ex a reason “other than following visitation schedule” which he does not like, even giving extra time and cordial I do this because my sons relationship with his father although superficial, is importatnt to him and up until recently have met each challenge, such as leaving him alone at skating rinks, (he was 8 at the time, leaving him alone in a steam room full of naked men repeatedly just to name a couple of bizarre behaviors. my ex has been counseled and “agreed to” every suggestion and turns around and does exactly as he pleases. His behavior is escalating this past year and he has threatened to take me back to court for priveleges he is already enjoying! I have been told that before I can really take my son out of harms way is if someone gets hurt first. Then I would be able to at least get supervised viaitation. I love God and have made many sacrifices and taken some covert abuse and still try to stand on my feet as Gods child in this situation.
    Its kind of like trying to tell someone your house is burning daown and them telling you here is a glass of water to put it out I am sure it will be fine.
    I hope he doesnt do irreversible physical harm first before somethiing can be done

  72. Rae
    July 20th, 2012 at 16:59 | #86

    this is so awesome! I have felt so alone in my trials and in dealing with my ex and I am thankful to have stumbled upon this website/article! you are all so brave and strong – now that I know what i am dealing with, I can be too!

  73. Stephanie Snoiw
    August 10th, 2012 at 22:26 | #87

    A small town community, dealing in custody when civil is unlawful, and my ex husb Toby has messed up the minds so bad of the kids 2 r now with others ans smaller 2 with him. The cid has tipped him, upon me reporting him rapping me, nothings been done. My P>O was transf n disappeard?????? None wud have happen if 1st the sherriff office read n complied with my child custody papers in the first place. My babies are medded up in the head n hes been granted a new upcoming year!!!!!!!!!!! he has contempts and the worst his mother Jimmie Snow. Both out of Baxter County Mt.Home Arkansas. I am deathly fearful. n thank you -479-220-0069

  74. Jill
    August 12th, 2012 at 20:38 | #88

    I had a horendous family case that the Father was a sociapath along with his wife. If lasted 10 years, and left me, my daughter age 18, and my mom suicidal due to the abuse of the HOUSE OF HORROR FAMILY LAW.

    The Judges, court appointed attonreys for kids and mediation people are the socipaths not us. WHAT HAPPENED to family matters first in America but more our kids are toremented..

  75. Jill
    August 12th, 2012 at 20:41 | #89

    I disagree with you as THERE ARE SICK FATHERS that drag their ex-s because they can’t get a hint as to why we divorceds them……

  76. silvi
    August 23rd, 2012 at 20:32 | #90

    Missy, I am with you. It does not matter what is agreed to. He will do what he wants anyway.

    I am the mother of a teen with mood disorder who lashed out violently at siblings and me, decided he hated me and would rather live with socipath dad. I was very uncomfortable in allowing that, as I knew his problems would get worse, not better. I did not want to split the baby so I acquiesced to his desire without protest. Father was happy to have the boy hate me – and he fed into that from day one. He was also happy to deny the need for treatment for any of the boy’s mounting troubles. Over 2 years, dad managed to completely alienate that child from me and blame me for it. That child is now in prison. Dad has his eyes on the others now.

    The other teens, upon mutual agreement, have lived with me with Father having as liberal a visitation schedule as he has requested – though overnights were restricted until recently because he refused to comply with a restriction on alcohol and intoxication (“high functioning” alcoholism is another of his problems). Father, in the meantime, has used his freedom to re-invent himself with a new woman, soon to be live-in lover, whose dream it is to have the children removed from my residence and re-united residentially with sociopath dad. Fun events, luxurious accommodations, home-cooked gourmet dinners and an active social scene is what they have lured the children with to date.

    My dilemma is this. What is worse: throwing the children to the lions (alcoholic sociopath and his next victim/mistress?) or fighting to maintain stability in their lives for just a bit longer. It is no longer about me – as option #1 would be way easier than caring for, paying for and helping direct the lives of three teens. Option #2 is the battle – that will leave them scarred in its own way, too… Hmmm. I do pray for God’s direction in this. I know He’s here.

  77. Juli
    August 27th, 2012 at 14:19 | #91

    @Rob
    Rob, I am a stepmother to a 12 yo. girl. I have been with her father for 5 years and have experienced his pain in dealing with his ex who I believe has mental issues that meets some of the criteria of a sociopath. She lies, manipulates, bullies, “forgets” her own agreements, uses her daughter as a go between, undermines and badmouths the father, never takes responsibility, changes plans to suit herself, refuses some child exchanges, really has no consideration for others, transfers her own character flaws onto my husband – even calling him the narcissist! But as long as she is outwardly stupidly nice and plays dumb, no one is the wiser. That goes for the awful bipolar (female) judge sitting on the court case last year in Spokane Washington where my husband tried in vain to prove that the mother’s parenting was damaging his daughter. (our) daughter has been progressively getting worse even with counseling and he believed he had to do something because he just could not get through to the mother by any other means.
    Despite proof that my husband and the ex deviated from the alternating weekend schedule outlined in the parent plan (since the child was 4), giving my husband 2 days per week, the judge upheld the custodial parent’s very recent and arbitrary decision to revert back to the original plan. He lost 4 days per month. Now the girl has spiraled down and the mother believes she is untouchable – up to her old tricks whereby hurting this child.
    My request for you: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep communicating to people that sometimes there are bad mothers and good fathers out there! My husband was heartbroken; devastated. I want people to know, mothers can be just as evil if not more and this is why we have so many fathers who “walk away”. I never understood before, how fathers could up and walk away. I understand now! How do we change the Family Court’s view that mothers are the natural choice? Thank you so much.
    - I tried to reply to a post but I don’t know if it actually stuck. Sorry if this is duplicated – New to the site.

  78. August 27th, 2012 at 21:59 | #92

    @ Juli

    Your earlier replies did get stored, I approved only the latest version of your comment.

    Sometimes readers have been confused by the comment moderation system not showing their comments immediately.

    We used to let many comments get posted right away, but after repeated problems with harassment and spam and the inability of spam filters to get rid of all spam without also throwing out some non-spam comments, we moved to a moderated comment approach.

    We have added a note about the comment moderation and hope that it will be more clear that it can take a day or sometimes more for comments to appear after they are posted.

    Your situation is very common. I used to think that having a precise label for the behaviors of the sociopathic parent was useful, but have seen far too often that trying to precisely label the behaviors seems to cause courts to turn against the abused parent and side with the abusive parent.

    There is still value in figuring out what psychological label applies best to the abusive parent, but it mostly lies in how you can then use it in your own reading and therapy working on the problems with people who are not idiots when it comes to psychological conditions like so many judges are.

    The behaviors you mention are very familiar. They can be part of a few psychological conditions such as Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Antisocial Personality Disorder. There are certainly other possibilities, too, however I would say that any reading you can do on BPD and NPD will help you and your husband understand the situation better.

    It is likely the mom grew up in an abusive home and learned to become an abuser herself. People who behave as you describe cannot be reasoned with or negotiated with. The only thing they understand is force, but if you or your husband try to apply such force you will find yourselves with a restraining order and no-contact or even in jail. When the courts as they usually do refuse to use justifiable force to make them behave, then these abusers learn they can do anything and get away with anything.

    The “transfer her own character flaws onto my husband” comment refers to the psychological term of “projection”. This is highly common for these abusers to do. They cheat, lie, have affairs, steal, break the law, etc. and then falsely accuse their victims of doing those things. Because they are often very emotionally intense, they can appear convincing to people who lack understanding of personality disorders and sociopathic behaviors. It’s been said that 90% of communications is emotion, and these abusers are often masters at manipulating people’s emotions.

    One of the handful of people we respect in the community of court-ordered professionals that has some good insights on how the system is failing many families says that most often the courts refuse to protect the children from abusers like the mom you describe until one or more of the children end up in serious trouble or dead. This sounds like the pattern in place in your family. This person also believes that child custody matters do not belong in family law courts at all because courts, being an adversarial system, encourage conflict and and worsen problems that could be resolved with other approaches.

    Sociopaths can be men or women. Being a mom doesn’t mean that one cannot be a sociopath, far from it.

    Probably the only ways to be safe from a sociopath are to imprison the sociopath or to hide yourself away from the sociopath. This is part of what parents who have been abused for years finally realize — they cannot have a relationship with their kids and remain safe from the sociopath. Some of them choose to stay and fight, knowing that every day they and the children are suffering and each day carries with it a risk of some horrible atrocity (false child abuse allegation, false DV allegation, false rape allegation, defamation that gets them fired from their jobs, etc.). Others realize the situation is so bad that the only tenable thing to do is to retreat and disappear. Neither is a good choice, but these are usually the only options available because the courts by and large will not do their jobs in these cases.

    My advice on how to change the perception that mothers should generally always get the kids is to first start with educating yourself more:

    1) Read up on father’s and men’s rights groups. There are some very excellent groups that are far more gender neutral than feminists and traditionalists. There are also a few extremist groups caught up in mother-bashing because they fail to see how this is just the reverse of what has been done to them and is also wrong. I suggest you ignore the extremists and focus on learning something from the others.

    The excellent groups back equal treatment under the law for all people regardless of gender. Many feminists and traditionalists hate these people and behave as sociopaths themselves, engaging in defamation, lying, and projection trying to keep the general public from learning the truth that most of these people are very reasonable and are only asking for equal protection under the law which is exactly what the US Constitution says they should get.

    I’d recommend you start with some of the writings and videos of “Girl Writes What” who is a strong advocate of gender fairness and who writes for A Voice for Men. A good first article to read might be Fathers At Christmas because it touches on the experience you are heading towards in which a great father may not be able to see his daughter much through no fault of his own.

    2) Read up on children’s rights efforts, including writings and videos by kids and adult children damaged by abusive parents. For example, here’s a video on a statement by a 15 year old boy who is a child of divorce in front of a legislative committee in Georgia regarding shared parenting.

    3) Realize that there is substantial vested interest by the government in maintaining the status quo, even though this is causing tremendous damage to children and good parents. See Gender Polarization Impedes Family Law Reform and Government By Sociopaths, For Sociopaths Dooms Family Law Reform Efforts for additional thoughts on this. The government is not going to fix these problems until the cost of the status quo is far beyond the benefits they gain from the current dysfunctional and abusive family law system.

    Once you think you are up to speed on the above issues, then maybe you can consider engaging in some activism in your area of the world. Be prepared that you will be attacked for “betraying your own gender” and other such nonsense, and point out that there are a lot of mothers who also believe that family law reform is badly needed and many of these moms fully acknowledge that good fathers are being maltreated believe that there is corruption throughout the courts. See Laura Lynn’s website and the Facebook page of Janette M. Isaacs for starters.

    Rob

  79. Jenna
    October 8th, 2012 at 18:25 | #93

    I do not agree that 50/50 custody works in all situations. Certainly not in mine.

  80. nanette
    October 26th, 2012 at 20:32 | #94

    that is sad, i had the same experience with the good ole boy system, due to Robin DeVito, she made threats to put my daughters in foster care, and i lost custody reporting her and didn’t see my kids for 2 yrs. they were a mess when i saw them 2 yrs later.

    they are in their 20′s and constantly bring up this case from hell, so there is another generation of kids being slaughtered.

    @Chris

  81. Eugene
    October 30th, 2012 at 19:09 | #95

    I’m so glad I found this website. I want to share my story and also get some advise on what to do. I’ll start from the beginning.

    When I was younger I thought I was a “Player” and I honestly was a jerk and I’ll admit that. In my Senior year of high school one of the girls I was fulling around with got pregnant. I wore protection but she still ended up getting pregnant. Overall, she honestly was a nice girl, but very naive, so I thought. She was very quiet and shy acting. She was from a smaller school and a christian home. At the time I had no intentions of having a child or settling down. Though I was a big “player” I always said to myself and my friends that if I ever had a child I would be a good father and try to do the right thing.

    She already had a child when she was only 15 years old. She told me the guy who she had her first child with was a jerk and that he tried to abuse her and she didn’t want him to have contact with her daughter. I used to talk to her on the phone and would console her when she was going through tough times with him. We grew close, and though I was messing with other girls at the time, she was a good friend and she grew very attached to me. So much so that she actually poked holes in the condom to purposely get pregnant. I found this out from a letter she sent to me after she was pregnant. She actually admitted it. I should have known from that point to run for the hills. I still have that letter.

    The fact that she did this didn’t matter to me as far as being there for my son was concerned. I thought at the time, even though I didn’t really want to settle down, the best thing to do would be to work through it and stay faithful from here on out and make a real relationship out of this for the sake of our son.

    As time unfolded I started seeing just how crazy she was. We actually stayed together for several years and I never once cheated on her. However, she cheated on me at least twice that I know of. Just to give you an example of how twisted she can be I’ll give you this brief story…

    I went to college in New York after graduating HS but ended up coming back to PA because I couldn’t stand the thought of being away from my son. We both lived with our parents at the time. One evening, after spending the day at her house, she decided she wanted to leave and back to my parents house where we would have more privacy. I noticed that she was getting all dulled up and putting on make-up. I asked her what she was getting all dressed up for and she said “no reason”. I drove out to her house in my own car and she asked me if I would go ahead and take my son and her daughter back to my house with me and she would be there shortly. I agreed and loaded the kids up proceeded back to my house. After being home for about an hour and still no sign of her, called her house and she never answered. At this time I think we had pages so I paged her several times and she never responded, even after a couple of hours. I finally decided to go out looking for her. While doing so I remembered that friend of my father’s (a bartender) told my dad several weeks prior to this, that she saw my baby’s mother in the bar with this guy I went to school with and they seemed to be talking and kind of laughing romantically over drinks. I honestly didn’t even believe it, but something told me to check this guy’s house because I knew he always had parties at this place on the weekends. Well, my hunch was correct. I pulled up to his place and heard music blaring. I got the nerve up to go knock on the door and keep my cool. As someone opened the door, I saw her behind a crowd of people with a drink in her hand and she ran to the back when she saw me. I asked them to tell her to come out. She never did and never came back to my place.

    The reason for even telling that story is to demonstrate what kind of person I’m dealing with. Not only did she lye about coming to my place she had me take my son and HER DAUGHTER and she never showed up. There was another incident similar to this and I caught her with her ex. After getting cheated on at least twice and lied to about all kinds of small things and big things I finally broke off the relationship. It happened after she threw her engagement ring at me several times over really, really childish arguments. I told her that if she did that one more time (throwing the ring at me) that I was not going to give it back to her and that we are through. I didn’t take our relationship lightly and for her to keep doing that, I just could not take it after everything else that happened with her. Well she ended up doing it again and this time I was through. Unfortunately, she was pregnant…again. This time she told me while we were together that she was getting the shot. Well, after I caught her cheating she knew our relationship was on thin ice and she stopped getting the shot and didn’t tell me. Yeah, I know, it’s like something out of a soap opera.

    When she realized that I was serious about calling it quits, she really showed her true colors. She told me that she was going to make my life a living hell. She actually said that. From that point on she was hell bent on destroying me.

    My son and I were very tight. I had a great relationship with my son and her daughter. I spend every single day with them before this happened. I mean every day. She knew how close I was to him and her daughter. As soon as I broke it off she started saying ” I left her and our family” even though she would not let me see them. She told me if I would not take her back, she was not going to let me be a part of my children’s lives.

    When my daughter was born, she didn’t call me. I talked to her off and on and tried to be civil with her. I had a feeling she wasn’t going to let me know when she had our daughter. She even told them not to put it in the newspaper so that I wouldn’t find out. She didn’t tell me until about a week after she had our daughter. She let me see her one time on her own.

    She ended up taking me for child support even though I was giving her money every month even when we were together because she still lived with her parents. When we went in for the child support hearing she tried to lie and say I have never gave her a dime. Luckily, I listened to my mother and always paid her with a check. They were going to make me pay a ton of back child support. I showed them my canceled checks and they started making me pay $500/month for my son. When my daughter was born, she went back and they raise the order to $768/month. This absolutely killed me. I was working a sales job at a wireless company at the time. When they first set the amount, I was making decent money, but the company I was working for changed our commission structure and new competition in our industry left me making about half of what the support was drawn upon. I lost my car and my credit got ruined. I honestly was not even making enough to pay my rent and eat.

    I wanted to see my kids badly but I had no money for a lawyer and I was so sick of going through all of the drama with her. I eventually got help from my mom with getting a lawyer and sued her for my visitation rights. The judge decided on every other weekend and since my daughter didn’t know me, we had to go through this children’s services agency to supervise the visits so that everything would go smooth and to introduce me to her gradually. I went along with everything. There was still always drama though.

    She would constantly make excuses to not show up. I filed for a contempt of court hearing because she refused to follow the orders and she always made a huge fuss and made it very uncomfortable for everyone when I would pick up my son.

    She got so angry that I was fighting her to see my son that she falsely filed a PFA on me. The police came to my job. It was so embarrassing. I was working for a bank at the time and they called me down to the lower floor because “someone was here to see me”. To my surprise I was greeted by two police officers. She said that I drove out to her house the night before and shot at her house.

    When we went to court for the PFA the judge saw right through her. Being that my contempt of court hearing and the PFA were both domestic issues. My lawyer asked the court to hear both cases that day. She tried put me in jail but she actually ended up with a 7 day suspended jail sentence instead. I could put her in jail if she kept on acting like this.

    Well, it really didn’t matter. She didn’t even care and she knew I wouldn’t put her in jail. Thinking back on it, I probably should have did it, but I just couldn’t. She made it such chaos when I would bring my son back and she always tried to get out of it. I honestly was drained. I was drained financially and emotionally.

    There was one incident that finally broke me. After fighting for visitation and threatening her for several weeks (with contempt) after not seeing my kids, I got her father to talk her into letting me see my son. She absolutely refused to let me see my daughter, and it was emotionally tough, because my daughter would cry every time she would have to come with me. She was very attached to her mother and she really didn’t want anyone else.

    When I brought my son back to her house she came out to get him even though she wasn’t suppose to. We were supposed to go through her parents to avoid confrontation. She ran to the door and snatched him from me. He was maybe 4 years old at the time. She snatched him so fast he was trying to say his goodbyes my mom and I. My mom stayed in the car. She thought my mom was my girlfriend and when my son was saying goodbye, his words got twisted because of all the tension. He said, “bye daddy…By Ma…Grand…” SNATCH!!! She thought he was calling my girlfriend mom (actually it was my mom in the car). He was crying and it really got to me.

    I had been through so much fighting with her, that I was all out of fight. I decided that it just wasn’t worth putting the kids through it. I felt like by me trying to see my kids I was actually hurting them. They didn’t need to go through this constantly and I actually cared enough to not take them away from her. My babies mother was adopted and she didn’t know her biological parents. This had a huge effect on her and I think she would have literally went crazy (crazier) if I would have took our kids away. So I backed off. I was completely beat – emotionally and financially. I just surrendered. I gave up. I couldn’t do it anymore.

    I figured she would come around eventually and over the years she would have her moments. She wants to be in control. As long as I’m paying her child support and not trying to be in my kids lives she’s fine. She ended up getting married and my Son is now 15 and my daughter is 11. I’m happily married as well. I have two other kids and my son actually talks to my oldest son via social media and xbox live.

    I have minimal contact with my two kids by her via social media also. I try to let them know I’m here but not to get so involved to cause her to go off the deep end. My mom has been very civil with her and she even brings the kids to my moms house on occasion (really only on holidays that involve money, birthdays and before they go on trips get money). My mom knew she was being used but she put up with it just to see them. I asked (though the kids) to see them several times and they ask their mom and she makes excuses still.

    My daughter has been to my house 3 times total. She loves it and she is actually close with me when she comes over. She always says how she misses me. My son came over a couple of times and we had a good time but I feel tension with him.

    About a month ago, she called my mother, beating around the bush like she always does about money for my son to go to homecoming. Before this, we had asked to see the kids several times and she always had an excuse not to let them come. My mother finally stood up to her and told her that the only time she calls or brings the kids over is when she wants money for something. She went off on my mother and told her how I was no kind of father and that she and her husband is over 100k in debt (they take the kids on a cruise every year) and that I need to do this and that and eventually hung up on my mother.

    A couple of weeks later, my cousin saw pictures on Facebook of my son at homecoming on his account. He called my mom and asked if she saw them. My mom said no and went on Facebook to see them. She was no longer able to see my son’s profile or my daughters or my baby’s mom. She took all of us off of their accounts, my only way of contacting them.

    The other day my youngest was on xBox and he was talking to my oldest son. I got on and asked him how he has been and asked what happened with the facebook thing. He told me “Don’t you get it…Leave me alone”. He never acted like this before. I don’t even know if it was really him because he didn’t answer right away. Although it may have been. I started telling him the truth about everything. I figured he is old enough to know at this point. I didn’t tell him everything like how she poked holes in the condom, but I told him that I have tried to see him and that his mother always did her best to keep that from happening.

    I know my daughter doesn’t feel like this. She is so sweet and actually showed me more affection than my son even though he saw more. This has been killing me and I really regret backing off now. I don’t know if I did the right thing or not. It has been keeping me up at night. I pay her child support, and everything but she gets to talk bad about me and I feel like I’m justifying it by stay in the distance. I really am thinking about making a push to have a relationship with my kids again. I’m older now and I think I an deal with it better emotionally. But did I wait too long? I let me son know even if he hates me now, I’m always here, but I think I can still save my relationship with my daughter, but I know I’m in for a hell of a ride if I start trying to enforce the visitation order. I don’t know what to do. Hearing that come from my son killed me. I can’t even sleep thinking about what he said. I don’t know what to do. That is why I’m asking for some honest opinions from here. What do you think

  82. November 3rd, 2012 at 22:59 | #96

    @ Eugene

    There is so much to reply to here. I will focus on your questions about what to do and your concerns about what you son said to you.

    Kids in situations like yours are in often align with their abusers against the non-abusive parent. They do this because they know if they do not support the abuser, the abuse against them will increase. Cut your son some slack, and do not take it too personally. This kid a living with an abusive monster and is likely terrified that if he shows any affection to you, she will double up on the abuse against him.

    I know about this from personal experience because my ex-wife abused me much more intensively after I had any contact with my own parents. I ended up even afraid to talk with my own parents because of what she would do to me.

    In Amy Baker’s book that I discussed in the article I linked to above, she mentions how alienated kids often wish the parents who are being attacked would do more to reach out to them. I think you should get a copy of that book and read it. It will help you understand much better what your kids are going through and that eventually, if they can get out from their abuser’s control, they will probably be able to re-establish a relationship with you.

    Regarding the courts trying to enforce visitation orders, you should invest some time in sitting in a courtroom and watching how the courts in your area work. The best thing to do is to know what the judge you would be assigned does in his or her courtroom. Many judges reward and encourage abusers, particularly if they are women, and there is a widespread societal bias against males in anything to do with families and children. There are a few good judges out there, but they are few and far between. Many judges are thoroughly corrupt and will sell their If you are lucky enough to get one of the few, you may find that enforcing the visitation orders is possible without too much pain.

    I would also suggest you start reading up on the men’s rights movement. Many of the most vocal and influential supporters of this movement are women who have seen what the courts are doing to their sons and grandchildren or to their husbands who have an ex like yours. A good place to start is the article Child Abuse From the Bench.

  83. Eugene
    November 4th, 2012 at 18:44 | #97

    Thank you for taking the time to reply. I’m going read the information you suggested and also try to go to a few hearings. I’ll keep you updated. Thanks again.

  84. nitabean
    November 5th, 2012 at 18:53 | #98

    @ Cole Stuart
    Trying living in it and see how over the top it sounds, the only time my husband gets any extra time with his child is when she wants to go cry wolf to another court/police station/ support services/ counselor/ etc. For the other side it is like living in fear of everything! I took a picture of his child with him, child told mom, mom tries to claim child porn and tried to sue me. Live it before you think its too much.

  85. lora
    November 23rd, 2012 at 06:55 | #99

    @ Cole Stuart
    give 50/50 to all? end of discussion, that’s it? that’s the stupidest thing ive ever heard!!! each family is different with different issues and what not. so how would giving 50/50 to a family where the mother abuses the child daily but there’s lack of proof benefit the child? each family is different and needs to be individually assessed in order to come up with the best decision that benefits the child. the problem is the courts being overloaded with cases and the people working in the courts being too lazy and not wanting to do their jobs to determine the best decision. you must not have children. have a lovely day.

  86. Lauren
    December 10th, 2012 at 01:04 | #100

    There are so many contradictions in this missive that I can’t tell what is true and what isn’t. But I will say as a successful former business owner and mother of two, that if the ex has a terrible 2 and a baby during work hours, she doesn’t have time to think, much less ‘build a business’. Moreover, unless someone has direct access to your books, they know nothing about your business, really. @ Clueless

  87. joy philip
    December 15th, 2012 at 15:12 | #101

    THE GREAT POWERFUL SPELL CASTER THAT
    BRING BACK MY EX BOYFRIEND.
    I just want to say thank you prophet amed for all you have done for me.
    He is back now. That very powerful spell to STOP THE DIVORCE – and get my ex boyfriend back.
    My name is Joy Philip, from Canada. I never believed in love
    spells or magic until i met this spell caster once when i went for a business summit
    march this year. I meant a man who’s name is PROPHET DR AMED
    he is really powerful and could help cast spells to bring back one’s gone,
    lost, misbehaving lover and magic money spell or spell for a good job or
    luck spell .I’m now happy & a living testimony cos the man i had wanted to
    marry left me 3 weeks before our wedding and my life was upside down because
    our
    relationship has been on for 3years. I really loved him, but his mother was
    against us and he had no good paying job. So when i met this spell caster,
    i
    told him what happened and explained the situation of things to him. At
    first i was undecided, skeptical and doubtful, but i just gave it a try.
    And
    in 7 days when i returned to Canada, my boyfriend(now husband) called me by
    himself and came to me apologizing that everything had been settled with
    his
    mother and family and he got a new job interview so we should get married. I
    didn’t believe it cos the spell caster only asked for my name and my
    boyfriends name and all i wanted him to do. Well we are happily married now
    and we are expecting our little kid, and my husband also got the new job
    and
    our lives became much better.in case you are in any situation you can contact
    prophet at his email solutionhome39yahoo.com or his personal cell +2347053375151
    Thank you for all your help prophet.

  88. Cole Stuart
    June 16th, 2013 at 20:06 | #102

    All: I invite you to review the recently filed Petition for Certiorari in the U.S. Supreme Court by Dr. Tadros against the State Bar of California and family law attorney Robert Lesh (below). The website also has many useful tips for parents in dealing with custody evaluators, mediators, and family court.

    Best of luck parents–stay clear of family court. The website uptoparents.org is an excellent free resource to save headaches, money, and your and your children’s future.

    God Bless.

    http://croixsdadsblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/tadros-v-lesh-petition-for-certiorari/

    Sorry Angiemedia–I’m posting a few times for convenience-I apologize if this is spam! :-)

  1. July 4th, 2010 at 15:13 | #1
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